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  #1  
Old 5th May 2002, 11:12 AM
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Kent Hovind's Cytochrome Lie

Kent Hovind, "Dr." Dino, wrote the following:

Well, now, hold it. If you want to just pick one item
and that's supposed to prove relationship, did you know that
human Cytochrom [sic] C is closest to a sunflower? So really the
sunflowers are our closest relative folks. It depends what
you want to compare. If you want to compare the eyes, we are
closest to an octopus. Not a chimpanzee. Pick something. What
do you want to compare? Human blood specific gravity is closest
to a rabbit or a pig. Human milk is closest to a donkey. It
depends on what you want to compare. Pick something. If there
were not some similarities between us and other animals we could
only eat each other. So God designed all animals from the code
so we could eat other plants and animals and digest them. Not
proof for evolution. It's proof of a common Designer!
The above was taken from a Word document version of his online
seminar. He has pulled from his web site in favor of a long
video file. (This post is based on some of my previous writings.)


Needless the say the claims being made here are all false.
For heaven's sake the cytochrome c closest to humans is
a chimp. In fact human and chimp cytochrome cs could not be
more similar since they are identical. So how a sunflower's
cytochrome c could closer than a chimp is rather hard to
imagine. But in fact, a sunflower's version is more
different than a human's than any animal's version. Just as one
would expect if evolution is true.

Lets compare cytochrome c sequences for various organisms. Each
letter represents a different amino acid. V for example stands
for valine.
(Here is a table.)
Cytochrome c, like any protein, is a sequence of amino acids strung
together. Similarity is determined how close the sequences are.
Non-technical readers might think it as how close their "spelling"
is to each other. Spaces are have no signficance, they are added
to make it easier to read the data. Now here are the cytochrome c sequences
for some organisms.




Code:
Corn
asfseappgn pkagekifkt kcaqchtvek gaghkqgpnl nglfgrqsgt tagysysaan
knkavvween tlydyllnpk kyipgtkmvf pglkkpqera dliaylkeat a 

Sunflower
asfaeapagd pttgakifkt kcaqchtvek gaghkqgpnl nglfgrqsgt tagysysaan
knmaviween tlydyllnpk kyipgtkmvf pglkkpqera dliaylktst a

Human
mgdvekgkki fimkcsqcht vekggkhktg pnlhglfgrk tgqapgysyt aanknkgiiw
gedtlmeyle npkkyipgtk mifvgikkke eradliaylk katne

Common Chimpanzee
mgdvekgkki fimkcsqcht vekggkhktg pnlhglfgrk tgqapgysyt aanknkgiiw
gedtlmeyle npkkyipgtk mifvgikkke eradliaylk katne

Rabbit
gdvekgkkif vqkcaqchtv ekggkhktgp nlhglfgrkt gqavgfsytd anknkgitwg
edtlmeylen pkkyipgtkm ifagikkkde radliaylkk atne

Bullfrog
gdvekgkkif vqkcaqchtc ekggkhkvgp nlygligrkt gqaagfsytd anknkgitwg
edtlmeylen pkkyipgtkm ifagikkkge rqdliaylks acsk
Now if evolution is true, than one should have some expection
of the data shown above. Chimp cytochrome c should be
closest to human followed by rabbit, bullfrog, and finally the
two plants. That is, of course, what we see. If the sunflower
really did have the closest cytochrome c to humans than evolutionists
would have some serious explaining to do. But the data
agrees with evolution rather well.

So why does Kent Hovind
claim that a sunflower has the closest cytochrome c to humans?
It shows that he has a serious honesty problem. A problem
that is rather common in creationist circles. It also illustrates
that if evolution was false, a type of observation which would
blow evolution out of the water. Hovind's sunflower claim is
clearly not possible if evolution is true. Thousand of similiar
possibilities also could falsify evolution. They are not being
made. It almost certainly is because evolution is true.

Click here for a chart showing percent differences between the cytochrome c sequences of various organisms.
Click here for some more sequences.

Actually the whole range of claims that I quoted Hovind as saying
above are false and are part of a group of claims that the
creationists have been falsely been making for decades. See
"The Bullfrog Affair" for
details.

Also see:
Sequences and Common Descent - Debunks another false creationist cytochrome c claim.
Compelling Data for Common Descent - More advanced treatment than the above.
Invariant Cytochrome C Sequences Disprove Evolution? - Debunks yet another false creationist cytochrome c claim.
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  #2  
Old 13th August 2006, 02:13 AM
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I think we all know that Kent Hovind is a joke.
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Old 13th August 2006, 03:02 AM
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f you want to compare the eyes, we are closest to an octopus. Not a chimpanzee.
That is definitely not true. Cephalopod eyes and vertebrate eyes have evolved seperately. We have many differences with each other. For one, the photoreceptive cells in cephalopods point towards the light, whereas our ones face the back, meaning that light has to travel through layers of neurons before reaching the photoreceptors. Our retinas are inverted. We get a lousy blind spot. Cephalopods don't. Poor design? Who's God trying to favour anyway?
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  #4  
Old 13th August 2006, 09:26 AM
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Whats with all those other examples? Is he wrong about those too? I'd bet that he is, but did he happen to get ANYTHING right?
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Old 14th August 2006, 11:34 AM
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Pick something. What do you want to compare? Human blood specific gravity is closest to a rabbit or a pig.
This sentence doesn't even make sense.

Human blood specific gravity? Hell hath no fury like an angry English teacher.
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Old 14th August 2006, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Nooj
Human blood specific gravity? .
lol
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  #7  
Old 14th August 2006, 11:45 AM
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And the donkey milk thing is yet again, another falsehood:

No direct comparison of human and chimpanzee milk chemistry
could be found. However, it was found that human milk
proteins (whey and casein) are much more like macaque milk than donkey milk. Human and chimpanzee milk lysozymes are
identical. Even this limited comparison disproves the
creationist claim that the donkey is our nearest relative
based on milk chemistry.
From here.
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Old 14th August 2006, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Nooj
This sentence doesn't even make sense.

Human blood specific gravity? Hell hath no fury like an angry English teacher.
Specific gravity is another term for relative density, determined against distilled water. I don't think it is very useful for measuring the density of a variable solution like blood.
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Old 15th August 2006, 03:26 AM
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Proving that Kent Hovind is lying is like trying to find sand in the Sahara Desert. When you’re surrounded on all sides by what you’re searching for, is there even any point in looking?
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Old 17th August 2006, 09:21 AM
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I thought I have lost all respect for that guy. I was wrong. Apparrently, it is possibly to lose just that little more....
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