I just wanted to share why I became a Calvinist (Feel free to share!)

ksen · #1 14th February 2005, 01:27 PM

I was saved in 1992 in a small, rural Baptist church. The pastor there always had bad things to say about Calvinism, so not knowing any better I accepted what he had to say.

In 1998 we moved to a different state and we started attending another Baptist church. The pastor was pretty much the same in his views on Calvinism. Then I started getting involved in the religious discussions on a different forum and I was confronted with the truth of what Calvinism taught and not my own spoon-fed caricature of Calvinism.

I still rejected Calvinism, but now it was willful and not out of ignorance. As time went on and I was confronted with more and more evidence from Scripture as to the Predestination and Election of the Saints and God's Sovereignty over His creation. I didn't have an answer for them.

As the debates raged on I got more and more turned off by the twists and turns that the non-Calvinists had to take in order to explain away what Scripture clearly said.

Finally, I took the plunge and accepted with my heart what my head had already understood: that salvation is indeed of the Lord.

ksen · #2 14th February 2005, 01:28 PM

Consider this a fellowship thread if you are do not have the "Calvinist" icon and still want to share your testimony.

However, there will still be no debating in here unless you are graced with the TULIP icon.

hooverbranch · #3 14th February 2005, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by ksen

I was saved in 1992 in a small, rural Baptist church. The pastor there always had bad things to say about Calvinism, so not knowing any better I accepted what he had to say.

In 1998 we moved to a different state and we started attending another Baptist church. The pastor was pretty much the same in his views on Calvinism. Then I started getting involved in the religious discussions on a different forum and I was confronted with the truth of what Calvinism taught and not my own spoon-fed caricature of Calvinism.

I still rejected Calvinism, but now it was willful and not out of ignorance. As time went on and I was confronted with more and more evidence from Scripture as to the Predestination and Election of the Saints and God's Sovereignty over His creation. I didn't have an answer for them.

As the debates raged on I got more and more turned off by the twists and turns that the non-Calvinists had to take in order to explain away what Scripture clearly said.

Finally, I took the plunge and accepted with my heart what my head had already understand: that salvation is indeed of the Lord.

That is a great story. Sadly I grew up with my Older Brother so I felt I never had a choice. He was a Calvanist and boy did he let anyone and EVERYONE know about it. But soon when I came to that age in Christ where I truly wanted to seak out my own answers. I found that which my brother spoke of was in scripture and many times. So I then decided to TRULY make the Calvanist believes of my own.

drstevej · #4 14th February 2005, 03:10 PM

Me-ology is the default mode. We are born thinking life revolves around us and God certainly must exist to make us happy.

I grew up in a liberal denominational church. I attended regularly as a kid, much to the dismay of my Sunday School teachers. I became a Christian at a lay witness weekend (a rarity in our church) and had no spiritual follow-up until I ran into Campus Crusade folk in college. I greatly appreciate the ministry of CCC in my life.

When I went to seminary (Dallas Seminary) I did not have a very detailed grasp on Scripture but was eager to learn. As a first year single student there were several guys in the dorm that were Calvinists and I began to join their late night discussions. These were similar to many Arminian-Calvinist threads here.

My initial reaction was offense and defense. Offense, because Calvinistic doctrines went against my grain. In defense, I launched a thousand questions and objections. But over the months I kept running into biblical passages that presented a God-centered world life view and which countered my me-ology.

The beginning point for me was embracing total depravity, irresistible grace and unconditional election (I have never questioned the "P" of the Tulip). My primary concern was that these doctrines would stifle evangelism. Shortly afterwards I became very familiar with the life of George Whitefield and other Calvinist evangelists. I saw a passion for evangelism in these men motivated by the glory of God.

Having studied the extent of the atonement in great detail I concluded that while logical and consistent with Calvinism, there were passages which prevented me from moving from 4 to 5 point Calvinism.

I later read the writings of Amyraut. And while I use the term Amyrauldian at times to describe my views, I don't find his arguments compelling although he arrives at a similar conclusion. So probably the term 4 point Calvinist (or 4.5 as some have judged by my comments) is best.

I do however firmly hold to Limited Attainment and the conviction that saving faith is a gift of God given in regeneration. My contribution was sin and rebellion. He saved me without my assistance.

Billy Sunday (who once said a jackrabbit knew more theology than he did) made one astute observation: if you rub a cat the wrong way he will bristle, but if you turn the cat around those same strokes will make that car purr.

I once bristled at Calvinism, but having been turned around by Scripture... I now purr at the same truths.

ksen · #5 14th February 2005, 03:14 PM

Thanks for your testimony DrSteve. I enjoyed reading it.

Imblessed · #6 14th February 2005, 04:09 PM

Well, let's see....I started to study more when I realized my in-laws who are JW's, had way more "knowledge" about the bible than I did. I decided to see if anything they had to say was true. It all sounded good on the surface, but something wasn't right. I was very uncomfortable with the emphasis they put on "our" part in our salvation, and the fact that none of them will ever really know if they've been good enough. I had always believed that you could lose your salvation, but not by just messing up, or not doing good enough...I had always thought it had to be a deliberate "turning away". Then I realized that that didn't even make sense, and I didn't even truly KNOW what I believed anyway.

I joined CF to talk to the JW's, and debate a little, but they were running circles around me. I knew they were wrong, but I couldn't prove WHY.

I prayed one day for God to show me the truth, to help me to understand what I was reading better, to put in me a desire to learn the Word. It wasn't even a couple of days later that I started exploring the different denominational subsites here, and ran across this room. To be honest, I think the only reason I actually came in here is because my three year old's name is Calvin and it amused me.....LOL

As soon as I started reading what "Calvinists" believe, I knew emmediately that I had stumbled across the truth. I started going to all the sites that Cygnus sent me too, and looking up stuff on my own. I was amazed that all those difficult passages in the bible just opened up. I can't believe how obvious Reformed belief is, and why I never saw it before. Actually, I think maybe I had always known it in my heart, but just didn't know it in my head. I was always very uncomfortable with the image of a God dependent upon our actions, or a God that wasn't completely omniscent or omnipotent. Looking back, I realize that I was never truly taught the deeper things of God. I never wanted to learn. I was a surface christian. I knew I believed, and I trusted that God would look after me, and for a long time, that was enough.

God led me to my present church a little over 2 years ago. I was raised Quaker, but the Quaker church I was going to offered nothing in the way of personal growth. I just wasn't learning anything. So I checked out this church(it's a community church) I love the church and it's focus and reason for being(it's a very outreaching church). But when I accepted the Doctrines of Grace, I was worried. I didn't want to leave but I didn't know what they taught about this, and I was scared to ask. Ignorantly, I assumed that because the focus is so heavy on outreach and evangelism, that they taught the arminian view(I still wasn't sure how Calvinism effected evangelism). I spent some time in prayer, asking God to help me out, to give me strength to confront the leaders and see just what they believed--because if they didn't teach the reformed view, I was going to have to find a church that did, and frankly, I didn't want to leave this church. Again, God answered my prayers. About a month ago, Tim, the pastor, started a series called "Grace" He is now in the middle of the series and he's explaining the Doctrines of Grace very clearly and without apologies. I can only sit back and praise God! Because of course He KNEW I would come to accept the reformed view, and had my church all picked out for me!

I don't even know how to explain the peace and joy I feel now since accepting the Doctrines of Grace. I'm just so happy that God has led me to this place, and I look forward to seeing where He leads me next!!!!!!!!

All praise to God!

ksen · #7 14th February 2005, 04:49 PM

I loved reading your testimony imblessed!

Our God is truly an awesome God. Why it seems from your testimony that God actually ordered your steps for you! Did you notice your free-will getting stepped on?

Anyways, that's great news about your church.

My pastor will encourage us to try and get along better with other Christians, and then will take swipes at the Reformed whenever he gets the chance. And the sad thing about that is that his doctrine is 95% of the way there.

frumanchu · #8 14th February 2005, 09:20 PM

I actually spent a bit of time meditating on this not all that long ago. While I was sorting through some old boxes in my office I came across a printout of an email exchange I had a little over three years ago with a non-Christian friend of mine. I had been a believer for awhile, but had just begun to really read the Bible in earnest and start actually participating in Bible studies. My friend was a very liberal philosophical thinker, and raised many objections to the Judeo-Christian God. He asked why an omnipotent, omniscient God would make the fruit available to Adam and Eve in the first place if He knew they would "out of curiosity" take them. My response was that "there needed to be a choice, a free will, in order to make love worth anything."

The following excerpt should explain better exactly what my frame of mind was at this point in my young Christian life:

Friend: "[In the Fall,] taken metaphorically, humanity acquired the knowledge of self (shown by their covering up) and therefore good and evil and therefore suffering. No self, no suffering. Sounds like Buddhism. But what about freewill. There was a choice here…or was there. The concept of freewill has been debated; the Christian reformer Martin Luther believed in predestination which precludes choice."

Me: "First let's differentiate between predestination and predetermination. Predestination is fore-knowledge of an outcome. Predetermination involves the outcome being actively decided upon in advance. God, being omniscient, knows already who will make that choice. He knows who will come to Him and who won't. He is willing that none should perish, but He knows that He cannot prevent it without removing the notion of free will and thus invalidating our love for Him. That being said, if Martin Luther supports predetermination, then, great as his influence was on the Reformation, I wholly disagree with him on that point. I've seen people try to prove that viewpoint by citing certain scriptural verses, but when applied to the "big picture" it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. God is love. Love without free will ("forced" love) is meaningless."

And elsewhere from me:

"…Absolute free will is absolutely necessary for love to exist…
...If salvation were not offered, then God would be unjust…
...God did not tempt us, but rather allowed us to be tempted because He knew that without free will and the opportunity to choose there could be no true love between God and man…

...We chose [our destiny] of our own accord. He asked us not to take this path, but He knew the opportunity to do so must exist for love to exist."

These words were written in July of 2001, well before I knew anything about Luther (obviously), Calvin, Arminius, Pelagius, or Augustine. And, more importantly, they were written before I knew much at all of Scripture. The "people who try to prove that viewpoint" I was referring to were posters in the Religion forum of FreeRepublic.com, which I had originally joined a year prior strictly for discussing politics leading into the 2000 election.

I wish I could say that the reason I still have this exchange printed out was because I had the foresight to realize it would be very instructive to me later on. In truth, I printed it out because I had first forwarded the response to my mother for her comments, and her response was that it wasn't correct. I printed it out and kept it with me for awhile trying to figure out what was wrong with it. My mother told me to read Romans 8, and said that it was one of many passages speaking of God's active predestination. I fought against it, sure that my mother was being too simplistic about it. I argued that, since God foreknew perfectly who would and would not choose Him, His very act of then choosing to create them (and thus set in motion that eventual reality) was predestination, and, as with my friend before, argued that it would not be just or loving for God to do it any other way. She responded by telling me to read Romans 9 and a few other passages, and encouraging me to read Romans as a whole. Romans 9 hit me like a bombshell, because it spoke directly to my objections. It was at that moment I remember quite vividly thinking to myself, "Well…that's that I guess. If the Word says it is this way, that pretty much settles it." I reluctantly accepted the fact that God was sovereign over the salvation of men.

I decided to shut up and listen for awhile on FreeRepublic, and became much more active in the religion forums. My mother introduced me to the theologian who has by far had the greatest impact on me: R.C. Sproul. Over the ensuing months, I became more and more firmly convinced of what I soon learned was called Calvinism or Reformed Theology. I learned more about the Protestant Reformation and its vital importance in the history of the church. As I began to interact with others there I found many people who ardently defended Arminianism using the exact same arguments, almost verbatim, as I had. And I was always reminded that my early Arminian position was essentially forumulated by my own philosophy without any real grasp of Scripture beyond a spotty, cursory reading of the New Testament.

In the three and a half years (it seems like so much longer) since, I have come to understand more fully the Doctrines of Grace. My participation in the FreeRepublic forums has had its peaks and valleys according to my personal life, and I have also spent equally sporadic time here at Christian Forums. One thing I found out very quickly after making it known that I believed in the Reformed soteriological view was that the same ferocity with which I attacked and ridiculed the Calvinists whom I used to oppose has been returned to me several times over. I understand where they are coming from. The thoughts and perspectives are still somewhat fresh in my head, and I remember how incensed I was when one of the Calvinists would post arguments from Scripture that would leave me sputtering and grasping at straws to try and defend my view against theirs. I take a stronger approach with the Arminians now, only because I know that such an approach was often instrumental in bringing me to an understanding of the Reformed position.

There are days when I envy those Calvinists who grew up in a covenant home and knew of no other view of Scripture than that of Calvin, Luther, Augustine and Paul. But I am thankful that I have come from where I have as such knowledge reminds me of the preciousness of the truth and the liberation a proper understanding of God's Word can bring. All of my vain speculations and human philosophy were crushed under the weight of Scripture, and now I echo with my Reformed bretheren that "by the grace of God I am what I am."

Knight · #9 14th February 2005, 09:55 PM

Why did I embrace Calvinism????

It's Biblical. Furthermore, it makes sense.

CoffeeSwirls · #10 15th February 2005, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by frumanchu

One thing I found out very quickly after making it known that I believed in the Reformed soteriological view was that the same ferocity with which I attacked and ridiculed the Calvinists whom I used to oppose has been returned to me several times over. I understand where they are coming from. The thoughts and perspectives are still somewhat fresh in my head, and I remember how incensed I was when one of the Calvinists would post arguments from Scripture that would leave me sputtering and grasping at straws to try and defend my view against theirs. I take a stronger approach with the Arminians now, only because I know that such an approach was often instrumental in bringing me to an understanding of the Reformed position.

This sounds so much like my experience! The Reformed position was introduced to me about a year and a half ago and I contested it, not with scripture, but with tradition. When I asked my father what he felt, he told me he leaned toward Calvinism, but it had never been brought up at home. That leads up to another aspect of my personal reformation.

Originally Posted by frumanchu

There are days when I envy those Calvinists who grew up in a covenant home and knew of no other view of Scripture than that of Calvin, Luther, Augustine and Paul. But I am thankful that I have come from where I have as such knowledge reminds me of the preciousness of the truth and the liberation a proper understanding of God's Word can bring. All of my vain speculations and human philosophy were crushed under the weight of Scripture, and now I echo with my Reformed bretheren that "by the grace of God I am what I am."

I have lamented the lack of theological instruction I had growing up. My father went to seminary, but never discussed God in the home. Everything I learned in Sunday School was to be accepted because some old lady was saying it and no scriptural proofs were ever offered. Even now, since I have become excited about the Lord, my father will not discuss any of it with me. When I told him a bit about where my leanings are, he still would not debate any of it with me.

I have accepted all of this since then, with an understanding that if I had been taught more forcefully in Arminianism, I may never have looked in the Bible to see if any of it was true. As it was, I had enough Arminian understanding to be angry when my ME-ology (hat tip to drstevej) was brought into question. It was my attempt to use scripture to disprove Calvinism that caused me to accept it.

I put the rest of the story in the forums here if you care to read it.