Simplest summary of truth

Van, I am reporting your personal harassment to the moderators

Kaitsu

One other example occurs to me where belief in Christ may not be so straight-forward as we superficially suppose. Consider this verse:

"For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 1 Cor 7:14

Paul describes the children of believers as clean and holy. If one of these dies before they are old enough to receive faith themselves, is it likely then that they are not saved, if they are considered "holy" while they are alive?

If they are saved, then this again requires that they meet Christ in another way than through their own lifetime.

Kaitsu

1 Corinthians 7:14 does not say the children of believers are saved. If this is the case, if they live long enough to know right from wrong, they would then become unsaved. Once a person is set apart for salvation nothing can snatch them out of God's hand.

So being sanctified as used in this verse means being set apart and put under Christian influence, a clean and holy influence. The believing spouse's calling is to present Christ to their family, their spouse and their Children. The family unit based on committment to God is holy and set apart from the pagan world. Acts 10:28 teaches it is not being a Jew that makes a person holy and clean, but committment to God.

Kaitsu, I think you've lost me, I'm out of my depth here really. I can kind of see what you're getting at but I don't think I can help you in your search!

I'll keep an eye on the thread though.

Best regards

Peter

p.s. Don't report Van (he's not often such a grouch), he might get chucked and that would stop our interesting discussion in two other threads.

I was not actually suggesting that these children are saved already, I was only speculating on what would happen to such children if they were to die at that time - it just seems "unChristian" they would be simply wasted.

But speculation is all it was, and nothing more than that, and I agree with what you say entirely about the meaning of this verse whilst they are alive.

kaitsu

That's OK Peter. Thanks for your comments so far. I am really not making any issue or stand on any point here, I was only looking to probe deeper into the thread-creater's own ponderings on his passage - in particular what "in Christ alone" actually means - just kind of thinking out loud really!

I am actually a very fundamental Christian, but a very new one, and I am still exploring the boundaries of what the gospel message actually says. I cannot just accept what other people say without thinking out these things for myself - but the inspiration and thoughts of others are a wonderful tool in this process and the main reason why I like this site.

It is important to me to try to view Christianity from a global perspective in terms of the entire human race and not just from the fortunate position of living in a wealthy, established, Christian country.

I don't have anything further to add here unless anyone else does.

Thanks again

Kaitsu

*** MOD HAT ON ***
If this thread is going to continue, it will do so on its own merits, and not on the debate about what one person does or does not believe.
*** MOD HAT OFF ***

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Summary of thread - Do we have to believe in Jesus during our lifetime to get to heaven or is there another route?

Answers - Yes, for those that never had an opportunity to believe in Jesus during their lifetime, they could be saved when they confess Jesus is Lord and bend their knee at the judgement seat of Christ.

- No, John 3:16-18 says if you do not believe you are condemned, and Luke 16:19-31 indicates once you enter the afterlife you cannot avoid the punishment or mercy bestowed based on your actions or lack of actions while alive.

The idea presented with the term "faith in Christ alone" is that under the New Covenant, no one comes to the Father except through Me, John 14:6. You cannot get to heaven because you try to keep the law written on your heart and you are ignorant of God's word, because the wages of sin is death and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. You cannot get to heaven because you are innocent, dying before you knew right from wrong, because you were conceived in iniquity, in Adam and therefore in a sinful state, separated from God and needing mercy by grace through faith.

"Faith in Christ Alone" indicates entry into the kingdom is exclusive to believers who chose to believe during the physical lifetime.

I work at a seminary that has no denominational ties.



I have worked more than 5 years at the Help Desk in the student’s computer lab. Thus I have had much contact with many seminary students.



I enjoy engaging in discussions about theology with them.



They must read hundreds of pages of books each term and write dozens of pages of papers to complete their assignments. So for them becoming a minister is a difficult and complicated task. This institution examines many and various viewpoints in the classroom.



A few years ago I came across the print version of the Cambridge Declaration. And for a long while they provided me with free copies that I gave away. Here is the online version

http://www.reformed.org/documents/cambridge.html



Most of these seminary students and my friends had heard of the expression faith alone in Christ alone. But none of us had heard all five parts.



Salvation is by grace alone

through faith alone

in Christ alone

based on Scripture alone

to the glory of God alone.



I later learned that this pungent sentence is well known by some Lutherans and some Presbyterians.



Like the Cambridge Declaration states each phrase gives both an ideal to aim for as well as an early warning system for how a Christian can go astray.







In our society with an over abundance of media stimulation it is helpful to me that I can return at any time day or night to this simple sentence to get my bearings again.

This is a point of some contention. I am not sure what is meant by "cooperating with regenerating grace" but I think the idea is that in a state of total depravity, a person could not believe in Jesus. This of course seems to me to be an erosion of Scripture Alone with Calvinist doctrine. Jesus said to seek ye first the kingdom of God and therefore to say Jesus gave guidance He knew we were unable to follow is adding to scripture.