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  #1  
Old 29th April 2002, 07:59 PM
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Idea Noah's local flood

The whole eretz land was flooded.

quote:
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Genesis 7:21-23

[21] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

[22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

[23] And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
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Most are shocked at the suggestion that the flood wasn't worldwide, but it wouldn't have been necessary in order to destroy the giants and the perversion they had caused in the region where the Adamites were located.

Go back and re-read the entire account translating "earth" as eretz: meaning, land or country.

If you still subscribe to the universality of the Flood, you have a lot of explaining to do.

Here's a small sample of what I’m talking about

There is not enough moisture and water available to cover all the mountains by fifteen cubits (Gen. 7:20) given that some of the mountains are 6 miles high.

That means that Egypt and all the land would have been covered with six miles of water.

The desert mummies in Egypt and buildings and monuments show no sign of extensive water damage from that time period or ever for that matter, except the sphinx.

Before & After.

The Geologist says the sphinx shows water damage to at least 10,000 years ago, some say much older. This much older date for the sphinx is contested by the archeological establishment though.

The archeologist puts the sphinx at 4500 hundred years old, well after the last ice age, and around the time when the local=(eretz) flood of Noah’s day occurred, which was right in the middle of what is commonly referred to the Bronze Age in human development.

The Sphinx must be on the order of 7,000 to 10,000 years old to have the marks, scars of water erosion found on it though.

The Sphinx, when considered with the neighboring pyramids and ancient writings, is part of, and possibly the first element of, a kind of astronomical map related to the constellation Orion.

They have concluded that the "best fit" for this map is found for the position of the stars as they were in 10,500 B.C.E.

There are references that the Sphinx existed prior to the pyramids though.

And also, there is an uninterrupted succession of dynasties, ruling & reining in Egypt, going right through the time of what is commonly referred to as Noah’s flood, in 2500 BC.

Even if we were to put the eretz flood of Noah to a much earlier date. That date would be have to be around 15 Million years ago.

Earth's geologic record shows the Sea level continued to oscillate through Tertiary time until about mid-Miocene time (~15 million years ago) when the last great high-stand in sea level occurred.

I can go on and on talking about Earth History. :rolleyes:

Noah’s flood at first, should be established within a more in-depth foundation of reality and documentation.

Eretz=local land.

The whole Eretz was flooded, underwater.

Just remember, when reading those passages on Noah’s flood, to fix the original Hebrew word into your mind.

That word is--> [Eretz]=Local Land, and you’ll be doing just fine


Have a great day.
Peace & God bless

Last edited by Honeycomb; 29th April 2002 at 08:02 PM.
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  #2  
Old 30th April 2002, 12:58 PM
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Now, I am an atheist, so I don't subscribe to the flood, but if you are correct, please explain why Noah took every living creature on board the ark, if it was just for the local land? (notice, it doesn't say, "2 of every living creature on the "eretz" or earth," but rather, "2 of every living thing"). Why didn't god just have noah gather up all the living creatures and have them journey to other "eretz"?
Genesis 7:13-16
13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 They had with them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with wings. 15 Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the Lord shut him in.
Of course, your conclusions on what the bible meant on which areas were flooded and, if there were indeed a flood :rolleyes:, that it didn't kill anyone outside that "eretz", were incorrect if you look at the following verses. Specifically read the one that says "and all mankind." Of course, you might say that it refers to every living thing on the "eretz" as stated earlier, but if you look up a little farther, it says "all the high mountains under the heavens were covered" - note that the sentence does not say of just one specific area, but everything under the entire heavens!!!. Then, if you look below where it refers to "all mankind," you will see where it says that every living thing on dry land was wiped out. Again, it doesn't refer to one specific area, but any land that was dry (ie...anything that isn't ocean!)

That doesn't even begin to go into the absurdness that only one area flooding will cover an entire mountain by at least 20 feet!

18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [2] , [3] 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished-birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
good in thought....but...either the bible is contradicting itself (again!) or you are wrong, and your attempt to try and rationalize something that has already been shown unreasonable, has failed.
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Old 30th April 2002, 02:28 PM
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Actually, the story of the flood in Genesis is a recounting of another story found in the epic poem, The Gilgamesh. The Gilgamesh is a Babylonian epic that was written nearly 2000 years before Genesis. There is a great deal of similarity between The Gilgamesh and what is found in Genesis, not surprising when one considers that they are all of the same people. Here is an excerpt from the Gilgamesh, the hero of this segment of the epic, Utamipishtim, has been told by the god Ea of an impending flood of the local river, and has been given instructions on how to build and outfit a boat to survive the flood. After the river floods there is no land in sight, but Utamipishtim knows the flood is ebbing because his boat is grounded:

So on the seventh day I let loose a single dove,
Which flew around but could not land so returned to me.
So on the seventh day I let loose a single swallow,
Which flew around but could not land so returned to me.
So on the seventh day I let loose a single raven,
Which flew around and found a place to land so it returned not to me.


See the similarity?
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Old 30th April 2002, 02:39 PM
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Worldwide flood

The epic of gilgamesh was just one of many accounts of floods. does this not indicate to you that the flood was worldwide ? Or is it just coincidence that most societies have Nov 1 as the day of the dead ? PS the Bible does not contradict itself.
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Old 30th April 2002, 03:00 PM
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The epic of gilgamesh was just one of many accounts of floods. does this not indicate to you that the flood was worldwide ?
No, but it certainly would tell me that at a time about 5 or 6 thousand years ago there must have been a heck of a flood in Mesopotamia which was probably where the people in the Noah story lived. I believe recent archeological and geological findings support this.
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Old 30th April 2002, 03:06 PM
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Recent archaeological evidence, such as ?

(didnt think I would call you on it, did you ?)
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Old 30th April 2002, 03:33 PM
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Recent archaeological evidence, such as ?

(didnt think I would call you on it, did you ?)
I haven't read it, but I believe Robert Ballard and the National Geographic have recently found evidence of a massive flood in the area of the Black Sea about 5,000 years ago, and no, I don't post anything hoping that I won't get called on it. Why would you make that assumption?
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Old 30th April 2002, 03:40 PM
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No offense meant, although you obviously took it. I was just being facetious. But still, your reply was awfully vague. As I am not in a place right this moment where I would have my references handy, I can make more intelligent posts tomorrow (hopefully). But in the meantime I will leave you with my apology at offending you and just say that the Bible says there was a worldwide flood and I believe it. I am going to look up the word "eretz" in my Strongs and see if that initial post was accurate.
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Old 30th April 2002, 03:51 PM
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Try this, Hopeforglory.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea
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Old 30th April 2002, 03:55 PM
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My arent we rude today ! I noted that you ignored my apology and got my name wrong too. I guess I misjudged you TSnot and I will talk to you tomorrow when I am better armed.
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