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13th April 2004, 01:27 PM
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Reps: 45 (power: 0) | | | If you honestly think that people are witholding a cure for cancer, it speaks volumes about your opinion of the medical professionals involved with the study of it.
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13th April 2004, 01:49 PM
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Reps: 427,521,690,148,968,832 (power: 427,521,690,148,993) | | Originally Posted by Loudmouth At this time, there is no substitute for fetal stem cells. People are hard at work trying to reverse engineer neo-natal stem cells (such as umbilical vein cells), but any manipulation may cause differences between derived and naturally occuring stem cells.
Several researchers have adult stem cells that can do everything an embryonic stem cell can do. I'm afraid politics has entered science at this point and it is politically necessary for ES cell researchers to say this. They backed themselves into a corner where this has to be true or they have no ethical justification for their work. It was their stupid PR mistake. Because of it, they now have to dictate data before it is found. 
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"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437
"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890 |
13th April 2004, 01:53 PM
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Reps: 427,521,690,148,968,832 (power: 427,521,690,148,993) | | Originally Posted by TasManOfGod lucas
The only judging I am doing is judging cancer and finding it guilty of attempting to destroy God's creation.
How that is confronted is up to the individual - my choice is to seek the advice of the maker much like as one mechanic would use original parts wheras another would use --something else.
Cancer is part of Creation. It is inevitable. The second law of thermodynamics says that it is impossible to replicate a system forever without error.
Remember, as a Christian, you shouldn't be looking on death as "bad". Christians alwasy state that it is after death that they are united with God. So, if you don't die, you can't unite with God. Yet here you are viewing death as "destroy God's creation". God's creation always had physical death in it. There is no way it cannot have.
Now, part of God's creation is our brains, and thus the medical skills we have learned. Yes, you can attempt to cure cancer by prayer alone. But aren't you turning your back on God if you refuse to use part of God's creation -- our brains and the medical skills that come from them?
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"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437
"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890 |
13th April 2004, 01:56 PM
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Reps: 427,521,690,148,968,832 (power: 427,521,690,148,993) | | Originally Posted by Phred I'm fine with that. Everyone that believes simply don't go to a doctor. Do not seek medical treatment.
I'll just sit back and watch evolution in action...
LOL! Unfortunately, most diseases like cancer don't hit until after the person reproduces, so the genes aren't removed from the pool. And the medical advance that prevents most diseases -- sanitation -- is done for everyone, fundamentalists and unbeliever alike. One prominent cardiothoracic surgeon I had the priviledge to know once said: "A garbageman in one day saves more people than I have in my whole career."
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"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437
"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890 |
13th April 2004, 02:08 PM
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 | | Join Date: 15th September 2003 Location: Tasmania
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No - cancer is part of the fall which came after creation. God looked at His creation and said it was good There is no redeeming features of cancer that God would call good
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I believe that God has more grace for those who make themselves available for His use rather than those who criticize those who He uses
Last edited by TasManOfGod; 13th April 2004 at 02:16 PM.
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13th April 2004, 03:37 PM
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Reps: 907 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by lucaspa Several researchers have adult stem cells that can do everything an embryonic stem cell can do. I'm afraid politics has entered science at this point and it is politically necessary for ES cell researchers to say this. They backed themselves into a corner where this has to be true or they have no ethical justification for their work. It was their stupid PR mistake. Because of it, they now have to dictate data before it is found.
I kinda thought that might be the case. They're claims had a lot of the usual handwaving, and lacked the "According to study XYZ performed by AB therefore C" that means that there's actual evidence. There was a lot of speculation about embryonic stem cells being less formed, which makes no sense, and not much else. |
13th April 2004, 03:38 PM
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Reps: 331,575,743,100,643,712 (power: 331,575,743,100,667) | | Originally Posted by lucaspa Several researchers have adult stem cells that can do everything an embryonic stem cell can do. I'm afraid politics has entered science at this point and it is politically necessary for ES cell researchers to say this. They backed themselves into a corner where this has to be true or they have no ethical justification for their work. It was their stupid PR mistake. Because of it, they now have to dictate data before it is found.
Are you saying that the adult stem cells are as pleuripotent as the fetal stem cells? Or are you saying that this data is trumped up to support the use of adult stem cells, even though they might not be as effective?
If you could, please post any references about comparisons between adult and fetal cells, just kind of curious where the opinions lie. My understanding was that adult stem cells can be used, but fetal stem cells were much more effective and easier to manipulate. |
14th April 2004, 01:16 AM
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Reps: 95,442,231,168,243,984 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by lucaspa Are you going to take JohnR7's route? That cancer will be cured simply by prayer and not being in sin? Do you realize the harm you are doing to Christianity, Jesus, and God with that attitude? You are judging all cancer victims. Jesus told you not to judge, lest you be judged.
In your passion to find "proof" of God, you are forgetting all the lessons about love and compassion that God and Jesus have tried to impart.
I'm suprised at you for your response here. There is no judgement here, there is simply not any understanding why one person may be healed and another is not. Not because one person is better than another or one person sins more than another.
We only seem to look at one side of the issue of death. Everybody dies, right? It's how we go out. Natural or unnatural causes. It's death any way we look at it. But we only look at it for what it is, when we don't understand what's to come. And those who believe there is nothing, have a problem with death. Because in that belief, death is so final.
Who has said that one person was healed because they were better than another?  |
14th April 2004, 01:28 AM
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miracle can happen.faith can cure anything. |
14th April 2004, 01:57 AM
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Reps: 9,696,570 (power: 9,707) | | | Or (more likely) it simply went into remission. | | |
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