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1st February 2005, 08:54 AM
|  | Ace2whoa - resident geneticist
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I speak as a Christian here, please bear that in mind.
It amazes me that YECs and so on sometimes argue against ToE on a premise of incredulity ("do you know the chances..." "how likely...").
And yet the alternative provided is that an invisible, omnipresent, omnipotent being described to us in a book written thousands of years ago created us in our current form from sand.
Now I believe in God ( as those who know me will know, I also accept the ToE) so don't think I'm arguing against God. However, given the above summary, how can YECs not realise that incredulity is a fairly poor position to argue from?
h2
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1st February 2005, 09:07 AM
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1st February 2005, 09:21 AM
|  | Legend
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Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by h2whoa created us in our current form from sand.
Adam was created from the "Adamah" or the ground, translated earth in some verses. It means red faced or ruddy. To represent the blood. |
1st February 2005, 10:35 AM
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Reps: 110,752,247,190,129,088 (power: 110,752,247,190,143) | | Originally Posted by h2whoa .
And yet the alternative provided is that an invisible, omnipresent, omnipotent being described to us in a book written thousands of years ago created us in our current form from sand.
Now I believe in God ( as those who know me will know, I also accept the ToE) so don't think I'm arguing against God. However, given the above summary, how can YECs not realise that incredulity is a fairly poor position to argue from?
h2
So because there is no other alternative we must accept ToE? What if we throw out God all together...what other alternative could there be? I am not arguing for YEC you know that I don't adhere to that interpretation and you know that I don't totally dismiss ToE. But you must admit that ToE has many areas of incredulity in itself.
If you are a Christian and know that God exists then why does it seem so incredulous that God didn't step out of the picture and had more to do with it all than what you seem to expect? Just curious. |
1st February 2005, 10:52 AM
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Reps: 1,642 (power: 9) | | Originally Posted by Oncedeceived If you are a Christian and know that God exists
No one knows whether god exists or not. |
1st February 2005, 10:58 AM
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Reps: 4,042 (power: 12) | | Originally Posted by Oncedeceived So because there is no other alternative we must accept ToE?
I don't think he's saying that at all. He's saying that one tactic that YECs use against evolution--the so-called Argument from Personal Incredulity (or the "Holywha?!" Defense, as I sometimes think of it)--is undermined by its own unbelievability. A deity, in and of itself, is even more incredible and impossible a thing than evolution. If you are a Christian and know that God exists then why does it seem so incredulous that God didn't step out of the picture and had more to do with it all than what you seem to expect? Just curious.
Which is a fair counter: if you accept the existance of a deity, and have faith in it, than the incredulity of its existance ceases to be incredulous. |
1st February 2005, 01:03 PM
| | Ace2whoa - resident geneticist
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Reps: 9,921 (power: 19) | | Originally Posted by Oncedeceived So because there is no other alternative we must accept ToE? What if we throw out God all together...what other alternative could there be?.
Hi Oncedeceived, how you doing? I feel that Dennis Moore has pretty well answered this part. It was a comment on the futility of trying to attack ToE because of incredulity (or more likely, lack of understanding) by appealing to a deity, which many perceive with complete incredulity. Originally Posted by Oncedeceived If you are a Christian and know that God exists then why does it seem so incredulous that God didn't step out of the picture and had more to do with it all than what you seem to expect? Just curious.
Good question. I wouldn't be incredulous of said event, if the evidence actually supported that that's what happened. However, the evidence doesn't support that description of events. It's a simple matter of evidence.
h2
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1st February 2005, 02:18 PM
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Reps: 110,752,247,190,129,088 (power: 110,752,247,190,143) | | Originally Posted by kahri No one knows whether god exists or not.
I don't know about anyone else but I do. And before you are tempted to say that there is a difference between believing and knowing...I know that too. |
1st February 2005, 02:23 PM
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Reps: 110,752,247,190,129,088 (power: 110,752,247,190,143) | | Originally Posted by Dennis Moore I don't think he's saying that at all. He's saying that one tactic that YECs use against evolution--the so-called Argument from Personal Incredulity (or the "Holywha?!" Defense, as I sometimes think of it)--is undermined by its own unbelievability. A deity, in and of itself, is even more incredible and impossible a thing than evolution.
But see it isn't incredulous to us God is not impossible nor is He in the same scope incredible. Granted it is to you. But as being more incredible or impossible that only rests with you. Do you see? So on our side of the fence your agrument of the ToE is perhaps seen in the same light as "Holywha??" in yours. Which is a fair counter: if you accept the existance of a deity, and have faith in it, than the incredulity of its existance ceases to be incredulous.
I'm not sure that is true. |
1st February 2005, 02:25 PM
|  | with a Touch of Grey
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Reps: 56,658,641,732,305,168 (power: 56,658,641,732,324) | | Originally Posted by h2whoa how can YECs not realise that incredulity is a fairly poor position to argue from?
h2
Because they just can't believe that it is.
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