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Old 23rd December 2004, 05:00 PM
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Question What is the Methodists view of inerrancy?

Hello all....

I am an old liberal Lutheran who is dating a woman who goes to a conservative "Bible Church"......they believe in inerrancy of the bible in the basic fundamentalist manner and you have to sign a statement to that effect to be a member of the church. I have gone to her church, she has gone to my church as well as another Lutheran church, and we have gone to a Methodist church. I did enjoy the Methodist church and would feel comfortable there.

So where do the Methodists stand on the inerrancy issue?

(I suppose we could talk about women pastors, evolution and homosexuality later.........)
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Old 23rd December 2004, 09:31 PM
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Here is the official position:

Article VOf the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation


The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical books of the Old and New Testament of whose authority was never any doubt in the church. The names of the canonical books are:

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, The First Book of Samuel, The Second Book of Samuel, The First Book of Kings, The Second Book of Kings, The First Book of Chronicles, The Second Book of Chronicles, The Book of Ezra, The Book of Nehemiah, The Book of Esther, The Book of Job, The Psalms, The Proverbs, Ecclesiastes or the Preacher, Cantica or Songs of Solomon, Four Prophets the Greater, Twelve Prophets the Less.

All the books of the New Testament, as they are commonly received, we do receive and account canonical.

Article VIOf the Old Testament

The Old Testament is not contrary to the New; for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and man, being both God and Man. Wherefore they are not to be heard who feign that the old fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the law given from God by Moses as touching ceremonies and rites doth not bind Christians, nor ought the civil precepts thereof of necessity be received in any commonwealth; yet notwithstanding, no Christian whatsoever is free from the obedience of the commandments which are called moral.
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Old 23rd December 2004, 09:36 PM
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You will not find much discussion of "inerrancy." I do prefer myself to use the old protestant term "infallibility." The Scriptures are "infallible" in that they contain all that is necessary for faith and practice.

Actually, I even break a tad from traditional thinking, in that, to restrict Scripture to the 66 "protestant" writings is presumptuous.
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Old 23rd December 2004, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ClementofRome
You will not find much discussion of "inerrancy." I do prefer myself to use the old protestant term "infallibility." The Scriptures are "infallible" in that they contain all that is necessary for faith and practice.

Actually, I even break a tad from traditional thinking, in that, to restrict Scripture to the 66 "protestant" writings is presumptuous.
Thanks.....I like that term "infallible"......I think I have heard that term tossed around but kind of forgot it......I'd like to read up on that a bit more.....
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Old 23rd December 2004, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ClementofRome
Actually, I even break a tad from traditional thinking, in that, to restrict Scripture to the 66 "protestant" writings is presumptuous.
That's traditional thinking?

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Old 23rd December 2004, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark_Lite
That's traditional thinking?

Forgive me....that is traditional thinking for us Protestants.

And of course, I should have said the "traditional Protestant understanding of Scripture."
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Old 23rd December 2004, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ClementofRome
Forgive me....that is traditional thinking for us Protestants.

And of course, I should have said the "traditional Protestant understanding of Scripture."
Ok, now you both just went over my head.......can you elaborate a bit and keep it simple?.....thanks.....
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Old 24th December 2004, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Lutherrunner
Ok, now you both just went over my head.......can you elaborate a bit and keep it simple?.....thanks.....
Roman Catholics, Orthodox and others have a more broad view of Scripture by including books of the Apocrypha. And, the inclusion of these writings follows a tradition that is approx 1500 years older than the Protestant tradition. So, my bad, by simply using the word "traditional." I should have said "traditional Protestant understanding of scripture" as this is what I was getting at. Protestants "traditionally" reject the Apocryphal writings.
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Old 26th December 2004, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ClementofRome
Roman Catholics, Orthodox and others have a more broad view of Scripture by including books of the Apocrypha. And, the inclusion of these writings follows a tradition that is approx 1500 years older than the Protestant tradition. So, my bad, by simply using the word "traditional." I should have said "traditional Protestant understanding of scripture" as this is what I was getting at. Protestants "traditionally" reject the Apocryphal writings.
So why is it that we Protestants feel that the apocryphal books are not to be a part of scripture? I can't say I have ever really understood this.
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Old 26th December 2004, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jangnim
So why is it that we Protestants feel that the apocryphal books are not to be a part of scripture? I can't say I have ever really understood this.
This is a very heavy question that could take a book to fill...here is the short of it from my take:

Early Church (late 1st-early2nd century) used the Septuagint (Greek OT) as its Scripture. There can be no question to this in that Clement, 3 or 4th bishop of Rome quotes from a VERY open canon, based upon the Septuagint.
Jewish reaction was Council of Jamnia in the mid-90's CE. Outcome was that a closed Jewish canon was now in place....only those writings that were originally written in the Hebrew language....this meant that Apocrypha was out for Jews (originals written in Greek).
Christian Church continued to use the Septuagint as its basis for an OT until the time of the Reformers (including Apocrypha). The Reformers, in an effort to further seperate themselves from the RCC, went with the Jewish understanding of OT canon. Since then Protestant churches have "generally" rejected Apocrypha.
Having studied 1 Clement thoroughly, I am of the opinion that the Reformers were in error...I would say that there is even the possibility that the RCC was in error in closing the canon. Clement cites many, many writings that are not found in either the RCC/Orthodox canon, nor the Protestant canon....as SCRIPTURE.

This is all very compicated with a vast history and I am sure that this cursory treatment is not sufficient. Please if anyone wants to input/correct/criticize please feel free to jump in.

Last edited by ClementofRome; 26th December 2004 at 01:32 PM. Reason: spelling, of course
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