A disappointing day today, as my moderator application was rejected.
I am, at this moment, downhearted, disillusioned and disappointed over the matter. *heavy sigh*
It's tough being rejected and I am a pretty sensitive person when it comes to rejection. I put my heart on the line as I always do, knowing that I could be left with heartache, and in this case heartache is what I got. I've been trying post or find some enthusiasm for jumping back on the horse after falling off, but it's not coming too easily. I feel the God's hand on my life and I know he loves me. *some hope returning already*. I remind myself that when all temporal love deserts me that God's love remains. So I call out to you for love today God.
/me prays
It's no use being bitter about it. It's no use dwelling on it. It's no use concerning myself with the things of this world, to such a degree, that it gets in the way of my walk with God. So I'm going to let this thing go. If it's God's will for me, then so be it. I wait for the next chance to know how I can serve within a community of believers, and God will clear the path for me to do so.
*deep breath*
So...time to start anew. I've been looking over some other forums as an outlet for my views that I wish to express. I have to have somewhere to express them, so that they don't come out here in this forum, where it will lead to me running foul of forum rules. I never intend to breach any rules. My attitude to any place is to work within the structure that is provided and to encourage and edify as much as possible.
There's been a bit of a migration of some of my favourite posters to other forums, and a few have become silent of late. I'm a bit disappointed in that too actually, as I would have hoped that they would stay, despite the difficulties. I like to push on through adversity myself, if its within me. I can only assume they had some difficulty in doing so. I know I shouldn't hang on too tightly to people around me, lest I become dependant on them for my strength. My strength must stand in the solitude, and God must be my one and only rock and foundation at all times. It's a postive thing, for me to talk myself around in this situation and remind myself of where my faith lies, and where I store my riches. My riches are in heaven, and not of this earth. I value the things that are eternal over the temporal. I leave with this quote from Imitations of Christ, CJ. It's something I must bear in mind at all times.
The Value of Adversity
IT IS good for us to have trials and troubles at times, for they often remind us that we are on probation and ought not to hope in any worldly thing. It is good for us sometimes to suffer contradiction, to be misjudged by men even though we do well and mean well. These things help us to be humble and shield us from vainglory. When to all outward appearances men give us no credit, when they do not think well of us, then we are more inclined to seek God Who sees our hearts. Therefore, a man ought to root himself so firmly in God that he will not need the consolations of men.
When a man of good will is afflicted, tempted, and tormented by evil thoughts, he realizes clearly that his greatest need is God, without Whom he can do no good. Saddened by his miseries and sufferings, he laments and prays. He wearies of living longer and wishes for death that he might be dissolved and be with Christ. Then he understands fully that perfect security and complete peace cannot be found on earth.
Bearing with the Faults of Others
UNTIL God ordains otherwise, a man ought to bear patiently whatever he cannot correct in himself and in others. Consider it better thus -- perhaps to try your patience and to test you, for without such patience and trial your merits are of little account. Nevertheless, under such difficulties you should pray that God will consent to help you bear them calmly.
If, after being admonished once or twice, a person does not amend, do not argue with him but commit the whole matter to God that His will and honor may be furthered in all His servants, for God knows well how to turn evil to good. Try to bear patiently with the defects and infirmities of others, whatever they may be, because you also have many a fault which others must endure.
If you cannot make yourself what you would wish to be, how can you bend others to your will? We want them to be perfect, yet we do not correct our own faults. We wish them to be severely corrected, yet we will not correct ourselves. Their great liberty displeases us, yet we would not be denied what we ask. We would have them bound by laws, yet we will allow ourselves to be restrained in nothing. Hence, it is clear how seldom we think of others as we do of ourselves.
If all were perfect, what should we have to suffer from others for God's sake? But God has so ordained, that we may learn to bear with one another's burdens, for there is no man without fault, no man without burden, no man sufficient to himself nor wise enough. Hence we must support one another, console one another, mutually help, counsel, and advise, for the measure of every man's virtue is best revealed in time of adversity -- adversity that does not weaken a man but rather shows what he is.
/me sits and meditates on this advice
/me ticks off another slightly more stressful day
In love, CJ.
__________________ "Force may subdue, but love gains, and he that forgives first wins the laurel." William Penn (1644 - 1718)
Last edited by Mustaphile; 19th December 2004 at 04:50 AM.
My mood is bouyant once again, CJ. I've been enjoying touching on some old themes in my writing and Bible study. I've went a got four weekly DVD's to watch and they have been sitting on top of the DVD player for two days now. I need to drag myself away from the computer and actually watch them
I had some fabulous conversations with my gal on the phone over the weekend. We've fallen into a nice rhythm, and she is feeling quite happy herself of late, having completed some rather large goals both in work and study. The weight that has been lifted off her shoulders has led to some elation on her part and I am being carried along on the mood as well.
Themes for the day in posting have been, pacifism, attitude, principalities and powers and conscience. A most interesting day it was.
Sayonara CJ!
__________________ "Force may subdue, but love gains, and he that forgives first wins the laurel." William Penn (1644 - 1718)
Coming up to Christmas and I am pretty busy. I only have one quck comment today. I like a good conversation in general apologetics, but I'm getting jaded about having my views trampled over every day. I'm off to read a book, listen to some music, and spend some time in prayer. I need to get some focus back after feeling like I've been battered from pillar to post by those with little respect for the beliefs of others. I get a sense sometimes of a proselytising nature amongst atheists, in others I see the signs of deep resentment and anger over past experiences with christianity, and in others again a mocking, intellectual arrogance that mimicks the worst aspects of religious fundamentalism and their 'your going to hell boy!' statements. There is little difference between the excesses of atheist belief and the excesses of fundamentalism at times. Neither side is showing much compassion for the other and neither sides seems to care who they step on in their haste to attack each other. I've been in the middle of the crossfire for a bit too long this week. I'm going to continue ply my centrist course and seek to bring people together rather than driving a wedge between them. Where is the love people? I'm thankful for my loving God.
/me prays for peace
Iim outta here, CJ.
__________________ "Force may subdue, but love gains, and he that forgives first wins the laurel." William Penn (1644 - 1718)
So much for the discipline of daily postings in my journal.
It's been a busy couple of days over Christmas and Boxing day, but I don't feel like talking about that much atm. I'm more intent on resting my feet, which suffered greiviously with all the standing around talking to relatives and loved ones.
Cya again when I have something more meaningful and purposeful to say.
/me waves to CJ
__________________ "Force may subdue, but love gains, and he that forgives first wins the laurel." William Penn (1644 - 1718)
I've decided to get a new avatar of Jesus as a black man to remind me that Jesus wasn't a 'white guy'. I already know Jesus isn't a white caucasion man, but I have such a love of the art of western culture that depicts Jesus in this way, that sometimes the image gets stuck in my head. I've watched quite a few documentaries on television over the last few months detailing the context of history, culture etc of the life and characters that shared in the life of Jesus, as well as examining Jesus himself in that context. This avatar will remind me of the importance of looking at these aspects to truly understand what the life of Jesus was about and how his life was perceived by those around him at the time.
My faith in Jesus really didnt come into full fruition until I got past the whole symbolism and abstraction of modern christianity. Values were conveyed in a sense by the depiction of Christ in such a way that I related to as a westerner, but something was lost in the metamorphisis of Christ into the common depictions found in Catholic art and Protestant art. I'm enjoying the new portrait of Jesus I have in my mind.
I've finally managed to wrap my head around an issue I was having with redefiniton of Mary Magdalene by modern scholars too. It's reinforced the leading of my conscience with regard to the influence that patriarchial authority had in consuming the the character of Mary Magdalene and redesigning her as the penitent prostitute. I like the new thoughts on Mary Magdalene as the a close confidante of Jesus, who may well have been pivotal in the whole birth of Christianity, but suffered the ignominy of having her influence erased and redefined in a slanderous fashion, so as to keep the role of leadership in the hands of men. There is much in the challenge of the role of woman in the church that forces us to redefine how we look at the Bible, especially in the role of Paul and his thoughts on women. I've never been an inerrantist when it comes to the Bible, but that just makes interpretation a more difficult task. Sometimes the penny drops and I feel like a whole new world of christianity has opened up before my eyes. In contrast to the non-gospel books, I have much faith in the Gospels themselves. The words of Jesus Christ have always been the inspiration and foundation of my faith.
Which reminds of something that I have been obsessing about all week. Parables! What a incredibly useful tool the parable is. In some meditations ont the parable of the sower of the seed, I had some interesting thoughts. I might grab those thoughts and cut and paste them into this thread so i can continue to reflect on them. This was an answer to a question about what people thought the parable referred to;
I would think it's talking about he circumstance you hear the word in, and the receptiveness of the heart that receives it, but most importantly it's talking about the response to that message. It's a call for us to be planters of seeds in the hearts and minds of men, but to not attach ourselves too much to the success or failure of the seeds growth or to judge the worthiness of the response by the bounty of its growth. There are factors outside of our control which God is aware of that will lead to some seeds not bearing fruit. The seed is the the Good News, that Christ has freed us from the bondage of sin, and we need not suffer from the condemnation of sin anymore. The heavy yoke of the law has been removed from around our necks and been replaced by the light yoke of the commandments of Christ to love God and love our neighbour as ourselves. As we walk the path through life towards God, we are called to cast the seeds of the Good News as we go. There is no need for us to then stand over the seed and become obsessive about whether the seed is goign to bear fruit. God knows the intentions of the heart and can read a man's response to the Good News and God will judge the intentions of the heart through the response. The circumstance upon which the seed finds itself, and the receptivenes of the heart to the message, will determine it's whether it will bear great fruit or not. God will judge the response to that message, according to circumstance and receptiveness of the heart.
The practical wisdom gained from this is that you can't force someone to take the Good News and make it a bountiful blessing in their life. Circumstance and trial will mean seeds spring forth in different ways. Your call is to plant the seed so that God can judge the response. It's not up to you to judge whether the response was worthy. The bountifulness of the response is not an indicator of the intention or response to the Good News. Some people will struggle with faith, but God is merciful in his judgement and knows their circumstance.
Make sense? I'm sure some will disagree with me, but that's what my eyes see and what my ears tell me. God will judge whether my response to the message was appropriate. I've always been fascinated by the method of teaching through parable. I find they hold a wealth of information about how we should live as christians, while maintaining a flexibility in the way we respond to God. They escape the legalism of the law and allow us to respond to life through the leading of the Spirit.
Now I like this particular thought that I had about the issue, but what I love about parables is that you can extrapolate so many things from them. It's the whole beauty of the way that Jesus taught that really convinced me that his wisdom was the way foward for humanity. The greatest stumbling for me as a person of compassion, was the legalism involved in Christian thinking. This stands in such stark contrast to the lack of legalism on the part of Jesus. If i was really going to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, I would need to have eyes that see and ears that hear. I used to spend untold hours going over Proverbs and trying to appreciate wisdom. I read somewhere, sometime, something about praying for wisdom so I did so, and made it my a major pillar in the foundation of my belief that wisdom was the key that would unlock the door to true understanding. The whole journey of wisdom though is an interesting one, in that it starts with such naivety, peaks with such certainty, and the seems to vaporise in the vanity and folly of my humanity. I have answers, but they are only general rules of thumb or principles, and it is in these principles that I have eked out of the Bible, that I have been able to find direction in my christian walk. Having found value in the rule of thumb or principle though, I have become fascinated with parables in the way that the point in a direction without saying anything absolute. This led me to a view on the world that was a combination of the subjective and the absolute. I believe in an absolute truth, but I believe that most peoples veiws on this absolute truth is purely subjective. In my mind a pictured a solid line of absolute truth standing perpendicular to the horizontal, and a series of interprative subjective truths converging on this absolute truth forming triangles, at which the apex is objective understanding of the absolute truth. I then became fascinated by the statements Jesus made about being 'the way', 'the truth', 'the life', and the early name of christianity as 'The Way'. This struck a chord in my searching heart and mind, in that the study of the teachings, life, death and ressurection of Christ was the indicator that would lead to this understanding of the absolute truth through the act of living as Christ. I now had the principle, and principle gave direction. From here I jumped to an intuitive thought about 'attitude', in the context of the word as the attitude of a ship in relation to the things around it. Then next intuitive leap was that the 'The Way', was talking of an attitude to life, determined by principle to be found in the understanding of Christ. So through the leading of the Spirit to transform the believer into the likeness of Christ, we are gifted the attitude we need to direct us towards absolute truth. Our understanding of the way may be subjective, but if the direction and course is maintained towards Christ at all times , then the destination was assured. This brought me great peace. I knew how to get through the confusion now. I had been consistently blown from pillar to post by the violent flux of dealing with so many subjective views of Christ, and trying to make sense of it all. With the addition of the the thought that we are all called to bring the talents and individuality that God provided for us when we entered this world, if I remained true to myself, confirmed in conscience that I was true to myself, followed the principles of Christ, allowed myself to be transformed by Christ through the spirit, and developed an attitude that encompassed the principles of Christ, then my salvation could be sought with much certainty. So many pennies dropped at this time. Praise God for his gift of wisdom and discernment that I had prayed for so often, but struggled to realise. A whole new picture of the world became evident. I'v gone on further to develop these ideas to encompass the battle of principalities and powers and I think this is where I need to be at in my journey towards Christ now. In my mind's eye I could see how a principality was a collection of principles. Some collections of principles are in direct oppostion to the principles of Christ. When I looked at the nations on the earth, I could see how each nation was a collection of principles that were delineated by geographical boundaries. This is the battle of principles that takes place in the natural world. While many becomes involved in this battle of natural world principles, they lose track of another kingdome that reigns in the spiritual. The kingdom of God under the Lordship of Christ, which has no geographic boundaries. I had discoverd my citizenship and it wasn't as part of any nation in the natural world, in which the principles espoused by any particular nation do contain many principles that are in contradiction to the principles of Christ. With my new understanding of my citizenship in Christ's Kingdom, I was released from the quagmire of the modern political man. The realm I was to defend was a spiritual kingdom that trancended geography. I was called to fight for my country, but not with a physical sword, but with a spiritual sword. It didn't matter whether it was my own 'natural' country that I had to fight, or another 'natural' country, if the principles of any worldly country conflicted with my Lord's kingdom, then i was called to stand in opposition to that principle.
Intersting that while I am typing this my quote of the day pops up on my screen and confirms in some way my thoughts.
Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our "God is a consuming fire."
Hehehe...bit of synchronicity going on there.
My God is a consuming fire! I'm inspired!
/me grabs his sword of the Spirit and goes out to defend the Kingdom of God.
*slash* *swipe*
Hmmm..its a sharp blade that divides truth from falsity.
I'll be back another time to complete these thoughts CJ.
/me ticks off another day till Kingdom come.
Maranatha! (my war cry )
__________________ "Force may subdue, but love gains, and he that forgives first wins the laurel." William Penn (1644 - 1718)
Principalites and Powers and the weapons at our disposal
Ok CJ,
I'm going to spend some time meditating on these thoughts and using the post as a reference point to record my thoughts as they come. This passage from Ephesians is a starting point;
Eph 6:10 Lastly, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his power.
Eph 6:11 Take up God's instruments of war, so that you may be able to keep your position against all the deceits of the Evil One.
Eph 6:12 For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against authorities and powers, against the world-rulers of this dark night, against the spirits of evil in the heavens.
Eph 6:13 For this reason take up all the arms of God, so that you may be able to be strong in the evil day, and, having done all, to keep your place.
Eph 6:14 Take your place, then, having your body clothed with the true word, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 Be ready with the good news of peace as shoes on your feet;
Eph 6:16 And most of all, using faith as a cover to keep off all the flaming arrows of the Evil One.
Eph 6:17 And take salvation for your head-dress and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 With prayers and deep desires, making requests at all times in the Spirit, and keeping watch, with strong purpose, in prayer for all the saints,
Eph 6:19 And for me, that words may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make clear without fear the secret of the good news,
-edit-
Bah! There is something about the poetic writing of the King James that inspires me so I'm going to throw in the King James as a reference too
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Initially when contemplating the opening words 'the strength of his power', my thoughts are turning to the scriptures of God finding strength in our weakness.
This passage speaks to me of faith. Faith is the foolishness of God. Belief in the unseen, but faith has great power to move men.
1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Hmmmm..I'll need to think about these two below a bit more. I haven't go anything concrete atm. Initially I think it relates to how when we become strong in ourselves we seek glory for ourselves, but when we are weak in our infirmities then we give glory to God and it is the glory of God that is revealed to other in us, through that infirmity. The glory of God being much more powerful than the glory of man to inspire faith, the most potent force in God's arsenal, that is foolishness to the wise. This is emphasised in the passage from Ephesians, '..And most of all, using faith as a cover to keep off all the flaming arrows of the Evil One.'.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
Ok, well that's a good start for the purpose of the shield of faith. I still have to examine the subject of sustaining faith...(later for that one)
I did move on to the idea of helm of salvation and was curious about the mention of helms in the Bible and came across this passage in the OT. It's got a lot of good stuff in it. So I'll throw it in too.
Isa 59:1 Truly, the Lord's hand has not become short, so that he is unable to give salvation; and his ear is not shut from hearing:
Isa 59:2 But your sins have come between you and your God, and by your evil doings his face has been veiled from you, so that he will give you no answer.
Isa 59:3 For your hands are unclean with blood, and your fingers with sin; your lips have said false things, and your tongue gives out deceit.
Isa 59:4 No one puts forward an upright cause, or gives a true decision: their hope is in deceit, and their words are false; they are with child with sin, and give birth to evil.
Isa 59:5 They give birth to snake's eggs, and make spider's threads: whoever takes their eggs for food comes to his death, and the egg which is crushed becomes a poison-snake.
Isa 59:6 Their twisted threads will not make clothing, and their works will give them nothing for covering themselves: their works are works of sin, and violent acts are in their hands.
Isa 59:7 Their feet go quickly to evil, and they take delight in the death of the upright; their thoughts are thoughts of sin; wasting and destruction are in their ways.
Isa 59:8 They have no knowledge of the way of peace, and there is no sense of what is right in their behaviour: they have made for themselves ways which are not straight; whoever goes in them has no knowledge of peace.
Isa 59:9 For this cause our right is far from us, and righteousness does not overtake us: we are looking for light, but there is only the dark; for the shining of the sun, but our way is in the night.
Isa 59:10 We go on our way, like blind men feeling for the wall, even like those who have no eyes: we are running against things in daylight as if it was evening; our place is in the dark like dead men.
Isa 59:11 We make noises of grief, like bears, and sad sounds like doves: we are looking for our right, but it is not there; for salvation, but it is far from us.
Isa 59:12 For our evil doings are increased before you, and our sins give witness against us: for our evil doings are with us, and we have knowledge of our sins:
Isa 59:13 We have gone against the Lord, and been false to him, turning away from our God, our words have been uncontrolled, and in our hearts are thoughts of deceit.
Isa 59:14 And the right is turned back, and righteousness is far away: for good faith is not to be seen in the public places, and upright behaviour may not come into the town.
Isa 59:15 Yes, faith is gone; and he whose heart is turned from evil comes into the power of the cruel: and the Lord saw it, and he was angry that there was no one to take up their cause.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and was surprised that there was no one to take up their cause: so his arm gave salvation, and he made righteousness his support.
Isa 59:17 Yes, he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and salvation as a head-dress; and he put on punishment as clothing, and wrath as a robe.
Isa 59:18 He will give them the right reward of their doings, wrath to his attackers, punishment to his haters, and even on the sea-lands he will send punishment.
Isa 59:19 So they will see the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the east: for he will come like a rushing stream, forced on by a wind of the Lord.
Isa 59:20 And as a saviour he will come to Zion, turning away sin from Jacob, says the Lord.
Isa 59:21 And as for me, this is my agreement with them, says the Lord: my spirit which is on you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, will not go away from your mouth, or from the mouth of your seed, or from the mouth of your seed's seed, says the Lord, from now and for ever.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
1Th 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labor among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
1Th 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Concerning principalties....
1. The principality of Jesus Christ, Lord of creation.
2. To show all other principalties the manifold wisdom of God.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.
__________________ "Force may subdue, but love gains, and he that forgives first wins the laurel." William Penn (1644 - 1718)
Last edited by Mustaphile; 28th December 2004 at 07:02 AM.