The USSR tried to be marxist. But when they saw that marxism didn't work and the people weren't overjoyed with giving the state all their property it became totalitarian. And that is what has happened with pretty much all the communist countries.
At the risk of being excessively blunt - this is a gross oversimplification, as well as being wrong in several ways. Marxism requires a progression from feudal society -> capitalism -> communism (also an oversimplification, but it will work for the purposes of my explanation). Russia attempted to skip directly from feudalism -> communism. Lenin and other Bolshevik revolutionaries were well aware of the problems with this, as any casual reading of primary sources will reveal. There is a distinct difference between Marxism and Marxism-Leninism.
What you are thinking of in your post is "War Communism". ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_communism ) And yes, it did result in extreme dissatisfaction among the population. Ergo it was replaced with the NEP in 1921. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy ) Stalin later diverged from the NEP with his de-kulakisation and other economic measures.
While the USSR did, as in the case of War Communism, practice economic policies more closely related to Marx, it still cannot be said that the country was Marxist. It did not fulfill Marxist theory in several fundamental points - it skipped capitalism, and the Revolution was not led by the Proletarian class but by the intelligentsia, who then also ruled, in direct defiance of Marx. In fact this idea of the intelligentsia making decisions on behalf of the Proletariat is much more closely related to Democratic Republicanism as practiced in the USA than to pure Marxist theory - consider the electoral college...
Enough history lesson, though.
As far as Russia goes. I also have friends currently in Russia. My father and brother have visited there several times. I work with many recent immigrants from Russia. I know that things over there are not easy. It is not a simple job to run a country like that with any situation. But the fact remains that 70 years of neglect will likely take 70 years of hard work to correct. It will not happen overnight.
While you may have personal contact you are showing that you do not have a developed knowledge of Russian history - it's not 70 years of neglect, sir. It's been neglected since Moscow took over. I would mark the end of democratic principals in Russia with the fall of Pskov to the Muscovy power in 1509. Some of the tsars were competent, but not many, and even most of those that were were hardly concerned with the general population.
In addition, there is a LOT of corruption in the governement at all levels right now. I really don't know how that can be fixed. The only real answer is some type of respect for honesty at all levels of society. When lying and corruption are endemic, you really can't run an honest business.
I'm trying not to become offended here, because I may be misunderstanding you, but the fault here is not Russian culture. The "Slave Soul of Russia" ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 ) does not exist. The Russian population (and when I say this I mean both the ethnic Russian population and the general population of the Russian-dominated lands) has been trying to buck this system for hundreds of years. Believe me, there is a respect for honesty. (Of course, honesty, historically, got you put in jail or in front of a firing squad.) But in my opinion, and the opinion of many other Russian commentators, the problem now is not a lack of honesty, but a hopelessly byzantine system of bureaucracy. The only way to get business done is through connections. You cannot do it within the system - the system doesn't make any sense. Laws contradict one another, laws have been removed with none to take their places. Putin undertands this, hence the "vertical power structure" that so alarms his critics. (It alarms me too, but I understand why he is doing it.)
I'm not saying all Russians are lyers. As I said I am working with many Russian immigrants right now. The ones I am working with are hard working, honest people that are overjoyed to have the freedom and opportunity in America. They are the ones that are telling me about their homeland, as well as the friends that I have currently in Russia.
You are going to get a different impression of Russia from someone who is "overjoyed to have the freedom and opportunity in America" than you will from many other people, which is all I will say about that. I live in America now and I am not exactly overjoyed with it, to tell you the truth. But none of that subjectivity changes actual Russian/Soviet history - what I said of Soviet Communism is the simple truth.
Hey, welcome to America. "Communist" is a dirty word that refers to the Soviet Union, not our good friends in the Russian Federation. I don't think you can understand the level of political correctness in our society.
Unfortunately, I can. I live in the US now, at least temporarily, for college and internship. There are many things I like about the US, but there are also many things I much prefer about the Russian Federation.
Unfortunately, I can. I live in the US now, at least temporarily, for college and internship. There are many things I like about the US, but there are also many things I much prefer about the Russian Federation.
Heh. Like not having Al Sharpton? It's impossible to say anything in this country without someone having their tail feathers ruffled. And the sad part is, whenever someone makes an accurate statement about the condition of some minority group, it's white intellectuals who get annoyed first. I don't understand that. Then again, a non-minority in the U.S. (caucasians) have to bend over backwards to avoid appearing prejudice in anyway to avoid getting sued.
It's sickening.
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No, I am a communist and God-faring man and I know many communist that are too.
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“A spider conducts operations that resemble those of a weaver, and a bee puts to shame many an architect in the construction of her cells. But what distinguishes the worst architect from the best of bees is this, that the architect raises his structure in imagination before he erects it in reality.” — Karl Marx
“Imagination is not an empirical or superadded power of consciousness, it is the whole of consciousness as it realizes its freedom.” — Jean-Paul Sartre
At the risk of being excessively blunt - this is a gross oversimplification, as well as being wrong in several ways. Marxism requires a progression from feudal society -> capitalism -> communism (also an oversimplification, but it will work for the purposes of my explanation). Russia attempted to skip directly from feudalism -> communism. Lenin and other Bolshevik revolutionaries were well aware of the problems with this, as any casual reading of primary sources will reveal. There is a distinct difference between Marxism and Marxism-Leninism.
I will defer to your obviously superior knowledge about Russian history and culture. But I would still like to make some comments anyway.
I made generalizations that will force someone with the knowledge you have make corrections.
I still say that the communists in Russia tried to make it marxist. In any society you have to start with what you have and then try to make it progress to what you want.
I don't think it will every be possible for someone to try to emulate marx's theorys in actual practice. He had a philosophy that he formulated in his own mind and then sold as scientific social theory. Anyone who tries to put his theories into practice has to work with reality. When you work with reality, marxism fails.
Originally Posted by Milla
What you are thinking of in your post is "War Communism". ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_communism ) And yes, it did result in extreme dissatisfaction among the population. Ergo it was replaced with the NEP in 1921. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy ) Stalin later diverged from the NEP with his de-kulakisation and other economic measures.
While the USSR did, as in the case of War Communism, practice economic policies more closely related to Marx, it still cannot be said that the country was Marxist. It did not fulfill Marxist theory in several fundamental points - it skipped capitalism, and the Revolution was not led by the Proletarian class but by the intelligentsia, who then also ruled, in direct defiance of Marx.
Yes...just my point. You start with what you have. That is why Marx won't work.
Originally Posted by Milla
In fact this idea of the intelligentsia making decisions on behalf of the Proletariat is much more closely related to Democratic Republicanism as practiced in the USA than to pure Marxist theory - consider the electoral college...
Yes...the electoral college which I love and enough of America loves for it to never be changed in 200+ years. Remember, the constitution can be changed and has been changed many times. But the electoral college remains and will remain.
Originally Posted by Milla
Enough history lesson, though.
Actually I enjoyed the history lesson.
Originally Posted by Milla
While you may have personal contact you are showing that you do not have a developed knowledge of Russian history - it's not 70 years of neglect, sir. It's been neglected since Moscow took over. I would mark the end of democratic principals in Russia with the fall of Pskov to the Muscovy power in 1509. Some of the tsars were competent, but not many, and even most of those that were were hardly concerned with the general population.
Granted. It has been neglected for centuries. And it is a tough country to govern.
Originally Posted by Milla
I'm trying not to become offended here, because I may be misunderstanding you, but the fault here is not Russian culture. The "Slave Soul of Russia" ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 ) does not exist. The Russian population (and when I say this I mean both the ethnic Russian population and the general population of the Russian-dominated lands) has been trying to buck this system for hundreds of years. Believe me, there is a respect for honesty. (Of course, honesty, historically, got you put in jail or in front of a firing squad.) But in my opinion, and the opinion of many other Russian commentators, the problem now is not a lack of honesty, but a hopelessly byzantine system of bureaucracy. The only way to get business done is through connections. You cannot do it within the system - the system doesn't make any sense. Laws contradict one another, laws have been removed with none to take their places. Putin undertands this, hence the "vertical power structure" that so alarms his critics. (It alarms me too, but I understand why he is doing it.)
Don't become offended. Obviously us Americans on this board have to put up with constant abuse. I we became offended everytime someone said something negative about our culture we wouldn't have time for anything else.
You point right to the point...You can't do business within the system. You have to do it through connections. That obviously leads to what most of us would call corruption. It is endemic in the system. I don't know how you fix it. I guess you see Putin making attempts at fixing it. I hope you are correct but I fear another totalitarian state in Russia.
Originally Posted by Milla
You are going to get a different impression of Russia from someone who is "overjoyed to have the freedom and opportunity in America" than you will from many other people, which is all I will say about that. I live in America now and I am not exactly overjoyed with it, to tell you the truth. But none of that subjectivity changes actual Russian/Soviet history - what I said of Soviet Communism is the simple truth.
Granted. You are correct in this.
I am interested in communism but I am a lot more interested in Russia.
Part of that interest is because of where I live. My state is only 3 miles from Russia. Well...just an island. But still we are close and there is quite a bit of visitation back and forth right now between Eastern Russia and Alaska.
I still say that the communists in Russia tried to make it marxist. In any society you have to start with what you have and then try to make it progress to what you want.
Seriously, please read some of the Bolshevik revolutionaries' writings. They did not intend Marxism. Marx was inspiration, not a road map to them.
I don't think it will every be possible for someone to try to emulate marx's theorys in actual practice. He had a philosophy that he formulated in his own mind and then sold as scientific social theory. Anyone who tries to put his theories into practice has to work with reality. When you work with reality, marxism fails.
Have you read Marx? I'm not certain that the conditions he outlined for a true Communist society have been reached anywhere. Ergo of course in our modern world Marxism cannot be implemented. The "Marxism doesn't work in the real world" axiom that I hear so often in the West has always sounded kind of silly to me...it is like saying "Mass colonization of Alpha Centauri system is doomed to failure in the real world!" Well, of course it is if you do it right now. But people who actually understand it would never attempt to do it right now. Anyway, you can't "create Marxism" - it's supposed to happen spontaneously, as I read Marx.
Yes...the electoral college which I love and enough of America loves for it to never be changed in 200+ years. Remember, the constitution can be changed and has been changed many times. But the electoral college remains and will remain.
The last sentence is opinion, correct? I am unfamiliar with a caveat in the Constitution that electoral college is unchangable, but I am no expert in American constitutional law.
Actually I enjoyed the history lesson.
I'm glad
You point right to the point...You can't do business within the system. You have to do it through connections. That obviously leads to what most of us would call corruption.
Corruption, yes, lying, no. If everyone knows you're doing something it's not very deceitful.
It is endemic in the system. I don't know how you fix it. I guess you see Putin making attempts at fixing it.
Oh, I don't see him fixing it. I see him working around it in a rather dangerous fashion.
I hope you are correct but I fear another totalitarian state in Russia.
So does everyone in Russia. Except, of course, the people who believe we already have another totalitarian state.
The last sentence is opinion, correct? I am unfamiliar with a caveat in the Constitution that electoral college is unchangable, but I am no expert in American constitutional law.
The electoral college could be changed by amending the constitution. It has been amended quite a few times. An amendment requires the ratification by 2/3s of the states which is difficult since it is not in the best interest of the smaller states to abolish the electoral college. If the electoral college were abolished this country would be run by the blue states. So you can see why some of us like it.
RE: Marx. I have read him...not all of his stuff mind you. Did he do anything other than write? Anyway, you are correct that his theories predict that the proletariat will revolt on their own.
The problem is that communists in general want to impose the system on people, they are not patient enough to wait for Marx's predictions to come true on their own. I can see why people like the idea of communism. Who woudn't. But communism will always come with corruption.
I would rather talk about Russia. In your opnion, what would be the best thing to happen in Russia? Would a quasi-democracy be better than a Putin dictatorship? Is there hope of true democracy in Russia. Do you see a possibility of Russia sinking into a dictatorship?
I think you said that about 35% of the people are still communists. How would you characterize the rest of the population?
The electoral college could be changed by amending the constitution. It has been amended quite a few times. An amendment requires the ratification by 2/3s of the states which is difficult since it is not in the best interest of the smaller states to abolish the electoral college. If the electoral college were abolished this country would be run by the blue states. So you can see why some of us like it.
I can, but it still doesn't seem fair to me that a president can win without the popular vote.
The problem is that communists in general want to impose the system on people, they are not patient enough to wait for Marx's predictions to come true on their own.
I don't think that's exactly fair. One can be a communist without being a Marxist, and therefore one would not follow Marx's instructions.
I can see why people like the idea of communism. Who woudn't. But communism will always come with corruption.
With human government will always come corruption. I would say that corruption is an inherent quality of people, not necessarily of a socio-economic theory.
I would rather talk about Russia. In your opnion, what would be the best thing to happen in Russia? Would a quasi-democracy be better than a Putin dictatorship? Is there hope of true democracy in Russia. Do you see a possibility of Russia sinking into a dictatorship?
As a caveat: I am a student of language and literature, not a political scientist or economist.
I don't see Putin angling for dictatorship, frankly. It's impossible to judge his motives, but it would be suicidal to do so, and he's clearly not that stupid. Putin's control isn't strong enough to maintain a dictatorship of any sort domestically, and the RF isn't strong enough at this time to stand up to Western opposition internationally. Anyway, the New Russia is based so much on international trade that I can't see Putin doing anything to jeopardize that - what's the point of being overlord of a country that doesn't work?
What the RF has now is a quasi-democracy. Sure, people vote, but the media coverage is dominated by the government, and any viable candidate is basically put forth by the people already in power. Moreover, rumour of voter fraud plagues elections. THe RF has a lot in common with the US that way.
Frankly, I'm not convinced that democracy - or, for that matter, democratic republicanism - is even actually possible in large countries.
The best thing to happen to the RF would be someone with Krushchyov's (most people don't think much of Krushchyov. I rather like him, based on his writings) moral thought processes and Putin's savvy coming to power. Unfortunately, I don't know who that would be.
I think you said that about 35% of the people are still communists. How would you characterize the rest of the population?
Well, the dominant political party is Yedinnaya Rossiya (United Russia), to which Putin belongs. They're all about bombast and patriotism. I don't think people like them that much, but the alternatives are the mismash of other parties, which are often erratic if not downright weird. They tend to be focussed on specific issues, or led by certain charismatic (or at least distinctive) political personalities. I'd say that most people I know are in favor of building a better capitalist economy but are souring on it as they see it bringing the lack of traditional Socialist values - care of elderly, veterans, health care, good treatment of civic servants like teachers, so forth.
Unfortunately, I can. I live in the US now, at least temporarily, for college and internship. There are many things I like about the US, but there are also many things I much prefer about the Russian Federation. 
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