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I’m no scholar, or Egyptologist, just a man with Google in hand, but here’s some aspects of the ancient Egyptian gods I've found which are strikingly similar to the characters in the bible
– they’re not a secret:
ATUM (Tem):
The Memphite creation myth puts him as the first creation of Ptah, who simply said his name and he came into being.
…in the myth cycle of An (GR Heliopolis), the Netjer “from Whom all Names emanate”. Like the Biblical God, Tem begins creation alone in the Nun, the deep void,
…he was the first substance (a hill) who emerged from the primeval waters…The Memphite creation myth stated that Atum was conceived in the heart of Ptah and was created by his word. Literally, "he who completes, or perfects".
Sometimes Atum was thought to have originated as a serpent in Nun, and to be destined to return to that form; but through his identification with Re, serpents became his enemies.
…He overcomes the dangerous snake Nehebu-Kau by pressing his fingernail on its spine. Before Gate 9 of the Underworld, Atum stands confronting the coiled serpent Apophis, condemning him to be overthrown and destroyed.
So 'Atum' sounds like 'Adam', in more than just his name.
Anyone familiar with the bible’s creation story will recognise these elements:
a perfect created being, a character who gives names to all, a deep void / waters from which arose the first land, the ‘crushing’ of a serpent in a future confrontation,...
Ptah:
…a creator god who brought all things to being by thinking of them with his mind and saying their names with his tongue.
Ptah is sometimes seen as an abstract form of the Self-Created One, Who effected creation through the actions of His heart and His tongue, and Who "set all the Netjeru in their places and gave all things the breath of life."
So Khnum fashioned the body of Amen-Ra's daughter and the body of her ka, the two forms exactly alike and more beautiful than the daughters of men. He fashioned them of clay with the air of his potter's wheel and Heqet, goddess of birth, knelt by his side holding the sign of life towards the clay that the bodies of Hatshepsut and her ka might be filled with the breath of life.
This isn’t the whole story of these gods, but the point is the similar traits they hold to the characters in the Genesis creation story.
So which came first?
Israel had supposedly been living in Egypt for about 400 years, long enough to gain a knowledge of their beliefs.
The Torah was supposedly written by Moses, which would had to have been while the Israelites were in the desert, after the exodus from Egypt.
The gods mentioned above are some of the earliest known gods of ancient Egyptian culture.
It is common knowledge that Egypt came before Israel (even according to the bible, Israel/Jacob himself supposedly visited Egypt in the time of Joseph, before the tribes had grown from his offspring).
Exodus 1:11
…And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.
Here, according to the bible, the Israelites build the city of Pithom.
Pithom, or Per-Tem, means “House of Atum”.
So both Egyptians and Israelites knew the Atum story before the exodus - when Moses would have written the Torah.
If it’s not obvious already,
Acts 7:22
“Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.”
Mighty in deeds indeed, he led a major rebellion and virtually gave birth to an entire nation. Of course he's going to have to give them a religion and a set of laws, and of course he's going to borrow from what he, and they, already know...
So maybe Creationists should be making their apologetics for Egyptian culture?
Like the Biblical God, Tem begins creation alone in the Nun, the deep void, or waters of potentiality.
(Gen 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
"THE WORLD THAT THEN WAS" (2 Peter 3:5,6). Creation in eternity past, to which all Fossils and "Remains" belongs. See App. 146
created: the Hebrew bara' means not only to create, but that what was created was beautiful. The root, meaning to carve, plane, polish, implies both order and beauty.
(Gen 1:2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
was = became. It was not created tohu (Isa. 45:18).
The Revisers ill-advisedly decided that "all such words, now printed in italics, as are plainly implied in the Hebrew, and necessary in English, be printed in common type."
One of the consequences of this decision is that the verb "to be" is not distinguished from the verb "to become", so that the lessons conveyed by the Authorized Version "was" and "was" in Genesis 1:2; 3 and 4; 9 and 10; 11 and 12, are lost.
So maybe Creationists should be making their apologetics for Egyptian culture?
OK.
The progeny of the fallen angels with the daughters of Adam are called in Genesis 6, N e-phil´-im, which means fallen ones (from naphal, to fall). What these beings were can be gathered only from Scripture. They were evidently great in size, as well as great in wickedness. They were superhuman, abnormal beings; and their destruction was necessary for the preservation of the human race, and for the faithfulness of Jehovah's Word (Genesis 3:15).
If these Nephilim, and their branch of Rephaim, were associated with Egypt, we have an explanation of the problem which has for ages perplexed all engineers, as to how those huge stones and monuments were brought together. Why not in Egypt as well as in "the giant cities of Bashan" which exist, as such, to this day?
Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the "men of renown," the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the "heroes" of Genesis 6:4. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks.
Thus the Babylonian "Creation Tablets", the Egyptian "Book of the dead", the Greek mythology, and heathen Comogonies, which by some are set on an equality with Scripture, or by others adduced in support of it, are all the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorded in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.
__________________ (Isa 2:11) The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
...Thus the Babylonian "Creation Tablets", the Egyptian "Book of the dead", the Greek mythology, and heathen Comogonies, which by some are set on an equality with Scripture, or by others adduced in support of it, are all the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorded in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.
So you are saying that everybody else got their stories from the same set of events, but only the bible is the True story?
Egyptian and Sumerian stories originate much earlier than Moses was even born.
Doesn't it seem more likely to you, that seeing as Moses was "learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians", and that he couldn't have written the Torah before the Egyptian stories originated, that Moses is using what he learned from the Egyptians...
...working it into the Israelites knowledge of a god their fathers knew but not by the same name, etc....?
...and so by trying to defend the biblical creation story people are really only getting caught up in the Egyptian mythology...?
“Hail you gods.
I know you and I know your names.
I will not fall down in fear of you.
You will not accuse me of a crime.” - Egyptian Book of the Dead
So you are saying that everybody else got their stories from the same set of events, but only the bible is the True story?
That is my personal conviction. While facts can be argued, personal conviction cannot. Therefore, if your conviction is different, I cannot reasonably call you "wrong".
Originally Posted by SpaceMonk
Egyptian and Sumerian stories originate much earlier than Moses was even born.
A great deal of the events in Genesis preceded Moses.
Originally Posted by SpaceMonk
Doesn't it seem more likely to you, that seeing as Moses was "learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians", and that he couldn't have written the Torah before the Egyptian stories originated, that Moses is using what he learned from the Egyptians..."
It is a plausible theory, and your quote from Acts is obviously correct. But there are other quotes from the Bible telling us Moses' source...
Exodus 17:14. Written by Yahoveh's command (compare Deuteronomy 25:19). Hebrew "the book" (bassepher).
Exodus 24:4, 7. Written by Moses, and "the book of the covenant sprinkled", with the people.
Exodus 34:27.Yahoveh's command, "Write thou".
Numbers 33:1, 2. Written by Moses "by the commandment of Yahoveh". From the first three months of first year to last quarter of fortieth year (compare Deuteronomy 1:2, 3 with 2:14).
Deuteronomy 1:5. The word "declare" = set forth plainly, and implies writing (the word occurs only in Deuteronomy 27:8 and Habakkuk 2:2), and includes from Deuteronomy 1:6 to 33:29.
Deuteronomy 31:19, 22, 24. "The song of Moses" to be written (compare the reason, verses 16-18). Ascribed to Yahoveh.
__________________ (Isa 2:11) The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
A great deal of the events in Genesis preceded Moses.
...but Moses came out of the Egyptian culture. I think it most likely (even obvious, seeing the parallels) that he got his story from them, rather than his new god, who was unknown to his own people.
It is a plausible theory...
I guess I'll stick with a plausible theory, and keep looking into the facts, than settle for anything less.
"Men occasionally stumble over truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
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