On the Offensive.

WoF has been on the defensive for over a 15 years(my copy of "A Different Gospel" is from 1988). Has anyone ever heard any WoF minister go on the offensive? We have all heard the objections of those who question WoF, some which have merit but most of which (IMHO) are unfounded. But if there are real differences between WoF and what Hank at CRI called "historic Christianity", then should WoF go on the offensive? Should they point out the many things that might be construed as "heresy" within "historic Christianity"?
I know that I have addressed a number of issues that I feel are destructive not only to Christian doctrine, but are close to heretical in nature. These things are almost universally accepted by modern Christianity.
Perhaps there is coming a time when we will raise up and say:
"Yes, there are differences between what we believe and what you believe. And Yes, the scope of the difference is such that either we are in heresy, or you are.... for we both cannot be right, and the chasm of difference is so wide that one or the other of us is into heresy."
Can you name a number of issues that might fall into this range of difference?

I will start with one:
General Christianity has in many ways allowed itself to be lured into a form of "mere theism". Mere theism holds a belief and image of God that is defined by the "general attributes of God". This has led created a lukewarm church. Christians are supposed to hold to the "Jesus image" of the Father; for He is the exact image of the Father. When presented with the option to choose the "Jesus image" or the "mere theist image", the average Christian will choose the concepts of mere theism and reject the Jesus revelation of God. Is this heresy? It depends on how far you take it. If you allow mere theism to define the nature and will of the Father instead of Jesus, then you have come very close. Most of my objections to modern theology revolve around this complaint regarding "mere theism". The Jesus image of the Father, and the gospel that was provided by His body and blood have been replaced by the tenets of mere theism.

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I dont think there is a need to go on the offensive. There's a saying: "Truth does not need to defend itself."

Just don't bother much about the critics. It's pathetic enough that they think they are doing God a service by calling everything and everyone who doesnt agree with them a heretic or heresy.

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WOW!!! SHADES OF DIDASKALOS!!!!

I say that because I have read similar statements by him.

My problem is NOT with systematizing truth (basically this is what systematically theology attempts to do). Whenever we do a topical study of Scripture, that is exactly what we are doing is systematizing truth.

For example, if I teach on, say, the Authority of the Believer, then I will take all of the Scripture pertaining to my subject and attempt to explain each of them in light of the rest of Scripture. In that sense I am presenting the topic systematically. I do the same thing with subjects such as divine healing, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, walking in love, the gifts of the Spirit, etc.

Here is where the problem comes: when my systematized understanding of Scripture contradicts the other person's and then this person declares my systematized truth as HERESY.

One consistent theme among most heresy hunters is "The Sovereignty of God". Except for the NIV, the word "sovereignty" is not found in most translations. This belief is built upon select passages of Scripture affirming God's ownership of His creation, His right to rule it, and His rightful demands to be recognized as the Lord of all.

In the presentation of this theology, it is inferred upon these Scriptures that God controls all events and man has no free will. These Scriptures with their inferred belief is then used to interpret other passsages of Scripture that speaks about the authority that God delegated to man and Scriptures that declares man's ability to choose for and against God. It is also used to interpret the Scriptures teachings on the actions of the devil and demons.

This teaching originated primarily with Augustine as a reaction to Pelagius' extreme teachings on man's free will (Pelagius went overboard and has forever earned a bad name in church history). This teaching was later revived by Martin Luther (to a limited extent), Zwingli and John Calvin (to extreme extents). Therefore, it is considered HISTORICAL and ORTHODOX. Those opposed to this teaching are claimed to be teaching HERESY regardless of how much Scripture they have to support their position.

Those who want to look for heresy in those of us opposed to their teaching, and want to claim historical authority as proof of their orthodoxy fail to mention that the Church Fathers before Augustine put a strong emphasis on man's free will. They also fail to mention that many not so well known voices in the reformation at the time of Calvin, Luther, and Zwingli were opposed to many of the doctrines that were being taught on the sovereignty of God.

Here is another thing that trips me out about heresy hunters: they use selective history to prove their orthodoxy. For example, people like Hanegraaf will laud Martin Luther but condemn JDS teaching as heresy. Yet, I can prove that Luther would be a heretic by today's standards.

I like what Tom Hovestol in his book, Extreme Righteousness, wrote:

"We readily take the names of spiritual greats and 'honor them' by building monuments and institutions in their names. However, the truth is we would likely reject them if they ministered among us today."

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Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.

Andrew

We don't want to answer the critics for the sake of the critics themselves. They won't be satisfied no matter what answer we give them.

However, many former WoFers have lost the faith because of confusion from heresy hunters and lack of response from more mature WoF leaders. Some of them even end up forsaking Christianity altogether while others become CALVINISTS (I'm serious). I have even seen some embrace LIBERAL THEOLOGY. The Heresy Hunters are accountable for much of this.

The misrepresentations, distortions, and out-of-quote contexts must be addressed for the sake of the young Christian brother or sister who does not have all of the info. Otherwise, most sincere Christians would not want to be asociated with a "cult" or something that is supposedly grounded in cultic origins. Therefore, the lies have to be addressed and WoF teachings must be defended for their sake.

The one things that keeps my own webpage up and has motivated me to begin writing again is the e-mails I receive almost daily thanking me for the webpage (and requests for more). Mnay people have written who either were once WoFers but left the movement and are back, or those who were hanegraafites who came accross my webpage and saw things differently. I have even had a former critic or two who has changed due to my defending the truth.

Furthermore, It is hard to just ignore the critics if you have Christians in your own family or job who may just be fans of the "Bible Answer Man" and have read the book(s) and feel that they need to rescue you from heresy. To these well meaning family and friends, you are a fool and are decived. If you are able to present your case with Scriptured coupled with the ability to answer false charges launched at your beliefs, then you may be able to win some and the ones you cannot win will at least stay off your back.

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Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.

OK VW you have valid points as usual. I agree.

I just thot that the point was to go on the offensive against the critics.

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Andrew

You're right. Perhaps the key word here that I missed is offensive. My apologies. And I do agree that perhaps we should be careful about starting a war with critics (if this is what we mean by the "offensive").

In Robert Bowman's book, "The Word-Faith Controversy" he accuses us of already having done that very thing because Word-Faith always spoke out against "Traditional Christianity." This is the basis that Bowman used to claim that we started this war with our critics. While I disagree with Bowman's assessment of this, to his credit he does condemn the uncharitable responses to WoF by people such as McConnell and Hanegraaf.

However, going on the offensive would probably give our critics more ammunition. They can act like the kid down the street and say, "He started it."

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I'm currently reading a book by a woman named Beth Moore. I am sure that most of you have heard of her. She is a Baptist Sunday School Teacher with a worldwide ministry. She recently wrote a book titled Believing God.

While Sister Moore is NOT WoF (In her book, Praying God's Word, she disparages what she calls "name-it-and-claim-it" and she does not believe that it is always God's will to heal and prosper physically in this life. She and I definitely differ in these areas), she says some things in Believing God that seems to be the basis of Songbird88's heart, at least in the first chapter (which is as far as I have read so far). Here are some excerpts:

For the most part we've dumbed-down New Testament Christianity and accepted our reality as theology rather than biblical theology as reality. We've reversed the standard, walking by sight and not by faith. (p. 3)

Your Promised Land is the place where God's personalized promises over your life become a living reality rather than a theological theory. (pp. 4, 5)

I think even non-WoF Evangelical Christians are beginning to have a heart hunger for more than just "mere theism" (as Songbird88 puts it). God raised up the Charismatic and Word-Faith Movements several decades ago to respond to the heart hunger of those of that generation who wanted more than a diet of theological concepts.

Furthermore, I believe that the Word-Faith Movement has had a greater impact on Christianity as a whole than most people would care to admit. Due to the attacks by critics which has given the movement a bad light (Some of it is our own fault and we must acknowledge that), most people do their best not to be identified with it. Yet, they use many of the same insights and revelations that were given in this movement.

God is going to feed the hunger of people who want more than just "doctrinal theory" with no basis of reality in our everyday lives.

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Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.

This is so true. I have almost succumbed myself, due to horrible things happening to me, while standing on WOF that I was so believing, only to be told by many that I was deceived because of I was WOF. And to only be slammed by WOF people when I ask 'what the heck happened?'

The confusion from the suffering camp was intense (because I WAS suffering - so it made sense that maybe WOF was really wrong). And the condemnation I received from the WOFer's was crippling (because it is never God's fault, it is ours, I know, yet when you don't know what you did wrong or how you blew it when you really thought you were in faith, in His will, etc. it can make one feel very shamed.)



I came across your webpage awhile back, VW, and it was very very helpful to me! I did not know it was you until just a few days ago. THANK YOU for presenting such a wonderful source!

I still do not have the answers for me... and I still doubt (esp when many on this Spirit Filled forum tell me I am 'deceived' by WOF teaching and need to suffer, and the WOFer's tell me I didn't have enough faith, didn't forgive enough, didn't stand enough, etc. - or the best one "just believe" -- like I haven't???)

But my spirit still LEAPS when I hear Kenneth Copeland and the WOF gang speak the Word.... and my spirit crumbles when I hear the suffering camp...

that alone is the only reason that, even tho I have been fileted open and seemingly left out to dry and am so bewildered, I hang onto the hope of the Lord and the remembrance of the years when WOF worked for me and my family. That perhaps my spirit really does know the truth, even though all outside evidence contradicts it at this time.

Thank you again Victoryword!

Italia

I am ashamed to say that early in my Christian walk and WoF years, I also was one of those who used to beat upon sufferers for lack of faith - until I came across a series of events where God was not answering prayers and none of my so-called "positive confessions" was working.

I asked God in frustration about this and He showed me my arrogance and pride. He never told me that what I was believing was wrong but He did show me that I needed to add compassion, mercy to others, and LOVE to all of my faith (and showed me SCRIPTURE too). It was not too long after that that I began reading Hagin's books on walking in love and reading books by Buddy Harrison titled "Mercy: The Gift Before and Beyond Faith."

Buddy Harrison (Kenneth Hagin's son-in-law and a faith preacher) saw the same tendency that in Faith Preachers that you describe and decided to confront it.

I thank God that I have learned that if people do not have faith to overcome, then I should stick with them until they do. Compassion and mercy means as much to God as our "great faith". People are more hurt by the lack of compassion as some of us demonstrated in the early years of this movement than by anything any critic has ever said or written.

I am blessed that you did not let that turn you away from the truth that the movement has to teach.

This means the world to me. You do not know how much your words above have encouraged me today. Thank YOU, and God bless you richly.

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Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.

My view may not be popular on this one... but, oh well...

Let me preface this by saying that I firmly believe in living the life of faith. I lay hands on the sick, cast out devils, prophesy, etc.-- everything that one thinks of when it comes to operating in the supernatural/walking in faith.

With that said, I think this is one of the biggest weaknesses of WoF'ers-- the fact that they try to go 'on the offensive' without the proper tools or training to do so. Let me explain... it has not been until recently (as in the past 25 years or so) that there have been ANY pentecostal theologians of any repute-- much less WoF theologians. There are many WoF preachers who may 'know the Word' but have no idea of how to systematically and thoroughly answer the questions raised by critics. The most common answer to a critique is usually something to the effect of "your interpretation is just man's tradition", but there is no scholarly research to back up those statements.

WoF'ers tend to ignore various historical interpretations of passages... and often times use the 'wrong' passage to support their view. By 'wrong' passage, I mean taking a passage out of context and using it to lead the charge on an issue instead of researching enough to find a better passage that actually says what we want the first passage to say. This has led to much proof-texting, and unfortunately, heretical teachings in some WoF areas.

Now, let me make this clear... I am not saying we should just throw out WoF. Quite the contrary, I am saying we should do our homework and properly support what we believe. The sad thing is that we give the heresy hunters most of their ammunition against us by saying stupid stuff that is not really backed up with scripture (which is what we claim to hold to so dearly). I won't go into specifics, but all WoF'ers who are honest about it will admit that quite a number of the prominent WoF leaders have taught things they have later had to recant because they realized they were wrong. I applaud them for admitting their errors, but why not just do the homework first to truly back up our beliefs before we open our mouths. Instead, far too many charge ahead because they feel they have something to prove.

On a different front, I too had a copy of 'A Different Gospel' in 1988 when it came out. One of my theology professors was actually a source for the book, so it was being hyped all over the place at the seminary I was attending at the time. The amazing thing to me, though, was what this professor said publicly about WoF. His statement was "It's not what they're teaching that concerns me, but what they're NOT teaching." He went on to elaborate that the message of self-sacrifice for the sake of the Gospel was being ignored. Basically, his critique was that too many WoF'ers were immature and selfish in their desire for blessing, rather than seeing God's blessing as a means to an end-- that of empowering people to spread the Gospel.

I learned a lot from this man-- even though he was fiercely anti-WoF. Namely that there is a huge difference between poverty and self-sacrifice. I walk in the blessing of God in ways few people understand-- but the reason for that is so that I have what I need to do what God has called me to do. I am called to preach the gospel. I am called to see people set free. I am called to see people healed and delivered. I am NOT called to try to impress people with how much money I have. I have given away more money than I can keep track of-- and God keeps sending more for me to give. I have travelled to several countries, fished for pirhanha in the Amazon jungle, biked through Germany, dined with top political leaders, been physically attacked for sharing the gospel in both the U.S. and Europe, slept in Presidential suites (Andre Agassi was bumped out for us), etc. I have seen healings, miracles, signs and wonders that still blow my mind when I think about them. But the truth is, while these things may sound exciting they only served one purpose-- getting people to Christ.

The 'flip-side' of the WoF coin is that all these blessings God wants to bestow on us are for a purpose. Throughout Church history, there have been many who have walked in the blessing of God (just look at the Vatican), not to mention the power of the Spirit. The problem is that most modern WoF'er just don't know it because they haven't done their homework.

I know it's not very 'flashy' to spend lots of time in study and research. It's even less popular to say "Grow up!" but if a few of the leaders would do these things, our message would be received so much more readily. And, I feel we would get so much more done for the Kingdom than we are now.




Well, I didn't mean to get up on my soapbox. Hopefully this was of some help to someone.

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