Science and Christianity

Liberty is the great parent of science and of virtue; and a nation will be great in both in proportion as it is free.
- Thomas Jefferson

The following are key translated trial documents from the inquisition of the mathematician Galileo (note the prohibited books in the third). They serve as a chilling reminder of the dangers of irrationalism. Equally chilling is the fact that I have encountered Christian websites that claim that the trial is a "modern myth." Adversus solem ne loquitor

source website: www(dot)msu(dot)edu(slash)course(slash)lbs(slash)492(slash)stillwell(slash)galileo_trial_docs(dot)html


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Consultant's Report on Copernicanism (24 February 1616)
Assessment made at the Holy Office, Rome, Wednesday, 24 February 1616, in the presence of the Father Theologians signed below.

Proposition to be assessed:

(1) The sun is the center of the world and completely devoid of local motion.

Assessement: All said that this proposition is foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts many places the sense of Holy Scripture, according to the literal meaning of the words and according to the common interpretation and understanding of the Holy Fathers and the doctors of theology.

(2) The earth is not the center of the world, nor motionless, but it moves as a whole and also with diurnal motion.

Assessment: All said that this proposition receives the same judgement in philosophy and that in regard to theological truth it is at least errouneous in faith.


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Inquisition Minutes (25 February 1616)
Thursday, 25 February 1616

The Most Illustrious Lord Cardinal Millini notified the Reverend Fathers Lord Assessor and Lord Commissary of the Holy Office that, after the reporting of the judgment by the Farher Theologians against the propositions of the mathematician Galileo (to the effect that the sun stand still at the center of the world and the earth moves even with the diurnal motion), His Holiness ordered the most Illustrious Lord Cardinal Bellarmine to call Galileo before himself and warn him to abandon these opinions; and if he should refuse to obey, the Father Commissary, in the presence of a notary and witnesses, is to issue him an injunction to abstain completely from teaching or defending this doctrine and opinion or from discussing it; and further, if he should not acquiesce, he is to be imprisoned.


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Decree of the Holy Congregation of the Most Illustrious Lord Cardinals especially charged by his Holiness Pope Paul V and by the Holy Apostolistic See with the Index of books and their licensing, prohibition, correction, and printing in all of Christendom. To be published everywhere.

In regard to several books containing various heresies and errors, to prevent the emergence of more serious harm throughout Christendom, the Holy Congregation of the Most Illustrious Lord Cardinals in charge of the Index has decided that they should be altogether condemned and prohibited, as indeed with the present decree it condemns and prohibits them, wherever and in whatever language they are printed or about to be printed. It orders that henceforth no one, of whatever station or condition, should dare print them, or have them printed, or read them, or have them in one's possession in any way, under penalty specified in the Holy Council of Trent and in the Index of prohibited books; and under the same penalty, whoever is now or will be in the future in possession of them is required to surrender them to ordinaries or to inquisitors, immediately after learning of the present decree. The books listed below:

Calvinist Theology (in three parts). . .
Scotanus Redivivus, or Erotic Commmentary in Three Parts. . .
Historical Explanation of the Most Serious Question in the Christian Churches Especially in the West,
from the Time of the Apostles All the Way to Our Age. . .
Inquiry Concerning the Pre-eminence Among European Provinces. . .
Donellus's Principles, or Commentaries on Civil Law,. . .

This Holy Congregation has also learned about the spreading and acceptance by many of the false Pythagorean doctrine, altogether contrary to the Holy Scripture, that the earth moves and the sun is motionless, which is also taught by Nicholaus Copernicus's On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres and by Diego de Zuniga's On Job. This may be seen from a certain letter published by a certain Carmelite Father, whose title is Letter of the Reverend Father Paolo Foscarini, on the Pythagorean and Copernican Opinion of the Earth's Motion and Sun's Rest and on the New Pythagorean World System (Naples: Lazzaro Scoriggio, 1615), in which the said Father tries to show that the above-mentioned doctrine of the sun's rest at the center of the world and the earth's motion is consonant with the truth and does not contradict Holy Scripture. Therefore, in order that this opinion may not creep any further to the prejudice of Catholic truth, the Congregation has decided that the books by Nicolaus Copernicus (On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres) and Diego de Zuniga (On Job) be suspended until corrected; but that the book of the Carmelite Father Paolo Antonio Foscarini be completely prohibited and condemned; and that all other books which teach the same be likewise prohibited, according to whether with the present decree it prohibits, condemns, and suspends them respectively. In witness thereof, this decree has been signed by the hand and stamped with the seal of the Most Illustrious and Reverend Lord Cardinal of St. Cecilia, Bishop of Albano, on 5 March 1616.

P., Bishop of Albano, Cardinal of St. Cecilia.
Fra Franciscus Magdalenus Capiferreus, O. P., Secretary.
Rome, Press of the Apostolic Palace, 1616.


===(This is the saddest of the documents)===
Galileo's Abjuration (22 June 1633)
I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galilei of Florence, seventy years of age, arraigned personally for judgment, kneeling before you Most Eminent and Most Reverend Cardinals Inquisitors-General against heretical depravity in all of Christendom, having before my eyes and touching with my hands the Holy Gospels, swear that I have always believed, I believe now, and with God's help I will believe in the future all that the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church holds, preaches, and teaches. However, whereas, after having been judicially instructed with injunction by the Holy Office to abandon completely the false opinion that the sun is the center of the world and does not move and the earth is not the center of the world and moves, and not to hold defend, or teach this false doctrine in any way whatever, orally or in writing; and after having been notified that this doctrine is contrary to Holy Scripture; I wrote and published a book in which I treat of this already condemned doctrine and adduce very effective reasons in its favor, without refuting them in any way; therefore, I have been judged vehemently suspected of heresy, namely of having held and believed that the sun is the center of the world and motionless and the earth is not the center and moves.

Therefore, desiring to removed from the minds of Your Eminences and every faithful Christian this vehement suspicion, rightly conceived against me, with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest the above-mentioned errors and heresies, and in general each and every other error, heresy, and sect contrary to the Holy Church; and I swear that in the future I will never again say or assert, orally or in writing, anything which might cause a similar suspicion about me; on the contrary, if I should come to know any heretic or anyone suspected of heresy, I will denounce him to this Holy Office, or to the Inquisitor or Ordinary of the place where I happen to be.

Furthermore, I swear and promise to comply with and observe completely all the penances which have been or will be imposed upon me by this Holy Office; and should I fail to keep any of these promises and oaths, which God forbid, I submit myself to all the penalties and punishments imposed and promulgated by the sacred canons and other particular and general laws against similar delinquents. So help me God and these Holy Gospels of His, which I touch with my hands.

I, the above-mentioned Galileo Galilei, have abjured, sworn, promised, and obliged myself as above; and in witness of the truth I have signed with my own hand the present document of abjuration and have recited it word for word in Rome, at the convent of the Minerva, this twenty-second day of June 1633.

I, Galileo Galilei, have abjured as above, by my own hand.

You are right, this is sad. It's sad what religion will do when it has power.

This just further illustrates that the debate of evolution vs. creation (science vs. religion) is already won, and the fundies desperately clinging to thier book need to realize that the world will move on whether they like it or not.

In addition, since the Catholic church continued to thrive for centuries after being proved wrong on this issue, it shows that free scientific inquiry is not a threat to faith.

__________________
Support our troops. Don't ask them to fight for a lie.

It was an even scarier world without the rights of self determination.

This is a bunch of ****.

__________________
Ps. 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path."

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Evolutionists can come up with all the wacko ideas they want, but they can't make a monkey out of me!
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Darwin is dead, and Christ is alive. Gotta love natural selection.
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no this is a bunch of ************************************************************

Well, thank you both for your well reasoned, thought out rebuttal to my post, that is always appreciated.

The church, in many forms, has almost always opposed any scientific thought that could threaten it's hold on power. In Europe, it was the Catholic church when people like Galileo and Coppernicus thought differently about the make-up of the world. Nowadays it's the Muslim church that severely oppresses women and any critical thinking in the Middle East and much of Central Asia. In America it's the fundamentalist protestants who try to pass laws to make their brand of fanatacism law and oppose any teaching of scientificly sound principles that in the least way contradict thier precious book. Let's not forget the Catholic church that still opposes birth control, even in regions of Africa where the current population is starving to death! "Hey, let's make more babies that will starve to death!"

My point is, sooner or later, hopefully sooner, rational minds in the United States and elsewhere will wake up and begin to realize that religion has only stifled creativity and the scientific process. It has been a roadblock for slavery abolitionists, women rights, and science. Christianity has done far more harm than any supposed "good" teachings that have come from it.

I can only imagine a world where religious prosecution didn't occur, because there isn't any religion!! Science would be free to create and better mankind. Wars would not be fought over ideas that have no bearing on the modern world.

Sigh... Sooner or later it will happen, I just wish it would be sooner.

Mendel - The Father of Genetics - Catholic Priest.
Georges Lemaitre - Formulated the Big Bang Theory - Catholic Priest.

Those are just two off the top of my head, should I go on?

While you're at it, read this: Christianity and the Rise of Science.

Oh, if people would only get their facts straight. The Catholic Church preaches abstinence and monogamy. Two sound, rational practices. Also, regions in Africa aren't starving to death because of the current population booms (which are not booming at all) but because of corrupt governments which use the aide as bargaining chips to further their corruption.

So really AgentX Quixote, let us try to address the facts, instead of tilting against windmills which don't exist.

__________________
Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals. I get my back into my living. I don't need to fight, to prove I'm right. I don't need to be forgiven.

A rebuttel to your original post, why? The people who persecuted Galileo where realy dumb. My coment with the ***** was merely an an attempt at humor. Because the guy before said this is a bunch of ********* and so I showed him that in actuality ************* was a bunch of ************not just a measily ***. :rolleyes: jeeezopetes.

But to rebuttle this particular post.
You believe people should forget about haveing any hope in the after life because you don't believe in the Judeo-Christian God.
I believe your ok to believe that only for yourself.
If you were king of America would you outlaw religion?

Yes, please do go on, I would love to hear about all the great contributions the church has made to scientific discovery. These people were working seperately from their roles as priests.

First of all, you are right, Mendel was a priest, but Mendel's work didn't contradict any church teachings. In fact, it wasn't even realized how important his work was until 1900 or so, 35 years after he made many important discoveries. By that time, the world had progressed to a point where he couldn't be burned at the stake, and it was in Austria. The church never came out for or against him.

As for Georges Lemaitre, you are right, he did come up with the big bang, and was actually a catholic priest. He took Einsteins theories and worked with them and did a great in the early 1900s. This is an exceptional event, because he was not excommunicated. In fact, his ideas were welcomed. He believed that the universe was incredibly old and would continue to expand. Why now, the reversal? Why are people so scared of the Big Bang? Why do YECs continue to take themselves seriously?

Your point is taken, nyj. However, the church has never, and I do mean never, encouraged scientific discovery. These people were working seperately from their roles as priests. They were comfortable with thier faith and science at the same time, why aren't fundamentalists of today?

I agree, they are good, but that's not all they preach. You CANNOT deny that birth control is denounced by the catholic church. Mother Teresa herself, in the speach she gave when she accepted her nobel peace prize said that birth control was a greater evil than war, corruption, or anything. If birth control and education was made available to people in Africa and other areas where starvation was rampant, then we might have fewer people starving to death there.

So, I'm fighting straw men, am I? I think I addressed your concerns. I notice how you skipped over the rest of my post. Christianity, with phrases in the "good book" such as, "women will submit to your husbands in all things," and "slaves, obey your masters," has done much more harm than good.

Going back to my original post, it will be a good day when religion doesn't trouble this world any longer.