Lets discuss ways to be saved without Christ

Alithis · Jan 19, 2017

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat said:
You say there is no salvation but through jesus christ, so before christ there was no salvation?

--Jesus is the word of God made flesh ..
-david said "in thy WORD oh lord do i put my trust ..he is saved through Christ . the word of God .
-God appeared to moses as a burning bush .. he spoke . moses was listening to the WORD of god .. moses is saved through Christ the word of GOD
-abraham listened to what God said ,, he took god at his word and acted on that word as evidence that he believed . Abraham had faith in the word of God - and the WORD became flesh .

there is NO salvation with out Yeshua JESUS the word Of God .

dlamberth · Jan 19, 2017

Robban said:
There are many who talk of being saved
like there was some kind of evacuation going on.

Also, many speak of going to heaven,
it is supposed to be so terrific there,
but few want to die, if you notice.

What's noticed is that in it's fear of death,
the ego imagines life forever,
while the souls' only want,
is to be with God.

What do I listen to?

cloudyday2 · Jan 20, 2017

dlamberth said:
What's noticed is that in it's fear of death,
the ego imagines life forever,
while the souls' only want,
is to be with God.

What do I listen to?

Yeah, that is my idea of heaven. I see God and then I burn-up into nothingness - much better than sitting on a cloud for ever and ever and ever...

danny ski · Jan 20, 2017

cloudyday2 said:
Yeah, that is my idea of heaven. I see God and then I burn-up into nothingness - much better than sitting on a cloud for ever and ever and ever...

On the other hand, the sitting on a cloud thing comes with free harp lessons.

ananda · Jan 20, 2017

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat said:
The reason that people can do “by nature” the things in the Law is that the essence of the Law is love. Every religion teaches the value of love to one degree or another because it is self-evident. We should know not to steal because we know the pain stealing causes. We know to help others because we know how we need and value being helped. To not be loving “by nature” is to be cold and selfish, and thus worthy of death on the merits of one’s own actions.

Love is not the highest goal in early Buddhism.

Love can be quite harmful, as it is a form of attachment which can lead to great sufferings; I needn't give examples of unrequited love, love for excitement, love for status, power, wealth, etc. all of which often lead to unskillful and harmful results. In early Buddhism, compassion is a quality considered greater than love, as compassion leads to less suffering than love; likewise, empathetic joy is greater than compassion, and equanimity is in turn greater than empathetic joy.

juvenissun · Jan 20, 2017

Arthra said:
Since this is a Christianity and World Religion board I wouldn't say that it's a "prevailing view" here that "all non believers won't have eternal life."

No no. Everyone has eternal life. Human is created to HAVE an eternal life.

Rajni · Jan 20, 2017

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat said:

I believe God to be a just God. So knowing he is incapable of injustice if my family members in japan don't receive salvation I would understand.

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Would you say it's just for God to create a person while knowing in advance that the person will never receive salvation?

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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat · Jan 20, 2017

chaela said:
Would you say it's just for God to create a person while knowing in advance that the person will never receive salvation?

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What if God does not know that information. What if he lets nature run its course, lets people be born built off the foundation of how he created the world and lets people choose freely. What if God only knows what is possible to know and if so then what free creatures do before they do them is not knowable, hence God doesn't know it. This isn't to say God doesn't have a good idea of who will believe or not but I'm more and more by the day believing in an open view of God that says while God could know everything in the future he leaves it open. So this person you say God created knowing he wouldn't receive salvation, I would say God hopes all will choose his son Jesus Christ but he leaves it open to them. And isn't responsible for it because he didn't know it because it is unwritten. This doesn't mean God is standing back and just watching but hes actively working as well as doing all he can to help all believe.

Rajni · Jan 20, 2017

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat said:

What if God does not know that information.

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Are you serious?

This is ... God ... we're discussing.
You know -- The Alpha and the Omega.
He who knows the end from the beginning.
See Psalms 139:16, Job 14:5, Psalms 56:8, Jeremiah 1:5

But, for the sake of discussion, let's demote Him to the status of, say, a demigod and therefore assume He can't see the future. Surely it would still be unjust for Him to proceed with creating someone for whom He at least suspected salvation would not be a factor?

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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat · Jan 20, 2017

chaela said:
Are you serious?

This is ... God ... we're discussing.
You know -- The Alpha and the Omega.
He who knows the end from the beginning.
See Psalms 139:16, Job 14:5, Psalms 56:8, Jeremiah 1:5

But, for the sake of discussion, let's demote Him to the status of, say, a demigod and therefore assume He can't see the future. Surely it would still be unjust for Him to proceed with creating someone for whom He at least suspected salvation would not be a factor?

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He is all powerful even though he can't do what is impossible. Likewise he is all knowing yet can't know what is unknowable. I don't think this delegates him to a demigod. Is it not just to create someone who has a free choice to choose salvation? It would only be unjust if he created people with no chance at salvation.

Rajni · Jan 20, 2017

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat said:
He is all powerful even though he can't do what is impossible.

"All things are possible with God". Matthew 19:26

Likewise he is all knowing yet can't know what is unknowable.

Click to expand...

See above.

I don't think this delegates him to a demigod.

Click to expand...

Sure, it does. It's definitely not recognizable as God, at least.

Is it not just to create someone who has a free choice to choose salvation?

Click to expand...

I guess that depends on what the stakes are.

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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat · Jan 20, 2017

chaela said:
"All things are possible with God". Matthew 19:26

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This verse doesn't mean god can make 2+2 =5 or married bachelors etc...

Rajni · Jan 20, 2017

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat said:

This verse doesn't mean god can make 2+2 =5 or married bachelors etc...

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While we can't grasp such concepts, doesn't mean they're impossible for God. Miracles do happen, after all.

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CrystalDragon · Jan 20, 2017

Alithis said:
Saved from sin ..

If that's the case then why do people still sin? If free will causes us to sin then in heaven will we have no free will? If in heaven it is possible to have free will and not sin, why not make it that way on Earth, or at least show exactly what heaven is like to clear up any doubt and confusion?

dlamberth · Jan 20, 2017

juvenissun said:
No no. Everyone has eternal life. Human is created to HAVE an eternal life.

That may be true for the soul, but not the human body.
In looking at the Universe, there is absolutely nothing in this physical realm that is made to have eternal life.

Alithis · Jan 21, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
If that's the case then why do people still sin? If free will causes us to sin then in heaven will we have no free will? If in heaven it is possible to have free will and not sin, why not make it that way on Earth, or at least show exactly what heaven is like to clear up any doubt and confusion?

free will does not course you to sin like its on auto pilot . you cause you to sin ,you choose to .

juvenissun · Jan 21, 2017

dlamberth said:
That may be true for the soul, but not the human body.
In looking at the Universe, there is absolutely nothing in this physical realm that is made to have eternal life.

Who said anything about THIS physical realm?
There is eternal life in another physical realm.

CrystalDragon · Jan 21, 2017

Alithis said:
free will does not course you to sin like its on auto pilot . you cause you to sin ,you choose to .

Thing is people say that there's a doctrine of original sin, which means we're born into sin. That's not a choice.

Rajni · Jan 21, 2017

CrystalDragon said:

Thing is people say that there's a doctrine of original sin, which means we're born into sin. That's not a choice.

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That's true. The bible even refers to it as being "slaves to sin" and even "dead in our transgressions". Which raises the question of just how much "free" will a slave or a dead guy has.

CrystalDragon · Jan 21, 2017

chaela said:
That's true. The bible even refers to it as being "slaves to sin" and even "dead in our transgressions". Which raises the question of just how much "free" will a slave or a dead guy has.

Exactly. So we may not even have free will after all, it's just an illusion—in fact several Bible verses support exactly that. So why punish someone for something they didn't ask for? Why torture someone you claim to love for being born into a situation they didn't ask for? Why try to pin blame on them for a situation out of their control and paint them as evil for something that two people—who were ignorant by default—did many generations earlier? Why claim "Oh, people choose hell" when no one would ever "choose" to be eternally tortured?

Lets discuss ways to be saved without Christ

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