What part was I playing in God’s plan between the being chosen before the foundations of the world a

Mark Noo · Jan 5, 2017

Scriptural support for question at end.
Ephesians 1:4 (NASB)
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

John 6:65 (NASB)
And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Acts 16:31New American Standard Bible (NASB)
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 8:28 (NASB)
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Finally, the question:
So I was elected before the foundations of the World, I had no part in that. Next God called me, the Spirit caused me to believe. Again, I did nothing. Now I am Saved. But I was not saved for the first 40 years of my life.

In those 40 years, many things happened. Some of those occurrences define who I am. Were these 40 years and the things that happened in the part of God’s plan? (is there any scriptural support for this) Or did I only become part of his plan when the Spirit entered me.

If all things work together for the “good” than these years would have to be included in the “all”. On the other hand, I know that I was God’s enemy before He called me to Him. That I acted in defiance to him. I am also aware of Compatibilism (soft determinism).

I guess what I am asking is; how far off course did I really get? I had a pretty tough life compared to most Americans. (It was not difficult compared to Third World countries and a small proportion of other Americans)

I am thinking God wanted me to have it tough for some currently unknown purpose. Do you think that is right, or did I just make a series of bad choices?

Is there any scripture that tells us when and how we are corrected if we get too far off course? I know about Jonah and Niniveh. Do you think that sort of corrective action is common, although not in such a spectacular and miraculous way, or do you think that occurred because it was a big thing? Ninevah had to repent, so Jonah had to go, also Nineveh were not Jews. This is big deal; my activities are not?

I guess I want to know how big of a micro manager God is.

Mary was chosen to be Jesus’ mother but does he pick everyone’s parents? Does he determine our personalities? Or are those things a matter of choice?

In Mathew 10:29 - 30 I read this (Alert, I changed translation to NLT, it seemed clearer)
What is the price of two sparrows—one copper coin? But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. And the very hairs on your head are all numbered.

Is knowing it the same as having to give approval?

Is there any scripture that would answer any of the above question? I am big on using scripture to support any statements I make. No mans words can convict like the Spirit's?
.................
sorry this question is so messy, it complicates how to answer, I don't know enough to be precise.

Thank you for considering this question.

PrettyboyAndy · Jan 5, 2017

Mark Noo said:
Scriptural support for question at end.
Ephesians 1:4 (NASB)
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

John 6:65 (NASB)
And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Acts 16:31New American Standard Bible (NASB)
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 8:28 (NASB)
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Finally, the question:
So I was elected before the foundations of the World, I had no part in that. Next God called me, the Spirit caused me to believe. Again, I did nothing. Now I am Saved. But I was not saved for the first 40 years of my life.

In those 40 years, many things happened. Some of those occurrences define who I am. Were these 40 years and the things that happened in the part of God’s plan? (is there any scriptural support for this) Or did I only become part of his plan when the Spirit entered me.

If all things work together for the “good” than these years would have to be included in the “all”. On the other hand, I know that I was God’s enemy before He called me to Him. That I acted in defiance to him. I am also aware of Compatibilism (soft determinism).

I guess what I am asking is; how far off course did I really get? I had a pretty tough life compared to most Americans. (It was not difficult compared to Third World countries and a small proportion of other Americans)

I am thinking God wanted me to have it tough for some currently unknown purpose. Do you think that is right, or did I just make a series of bad choices?

Is there any scripture that tells us when and how we are corrected if we get too far off course? I know about Jonah and Niniveh. Do you think that sort of corrective action is common, although not in such a spectacular and miraculous way, or do you think that occurred because it was a big thing? Ninevah had to repent, so Jonah had to go, also Nineveh were not Jews. This is big deal; my activities are not?

I guess I want to know how big of a micro manager God is.

Mary was chosen to be Jesus’ mother but does he pick everyone’s parents? Does he determine our personalities? Or are those things a matter of choice?

In Mathew 10:29 - 30 I read this (Alert, I changed translation to NLT, it seemed clearer)
What is the price of two sparrows—one copper coin? But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. And the very hairs on your head are all numbered.

Is knowing it the same as having to give approval?

Is there any scripture that would answer any of the above question? I am big on using scripture to support any statements I make. No mans words can convict like the Spirit's?
.................
sorry this question is so messy, it complicates how to answer, I don't know enough to be precise.

Thank you for considering this question.

Nice post!

The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD. Proverbs 16:33

Everything brother

Archie the Preacher · Jan 5, 2017

Mr. Noo; in my experience, God does not tell me what He wants you to do. I'll bet no one else, either.

Someone else may counsel you and assist you in finding God's plan, but I rather think you are going to have to get it from God Himself.

Quite possibly, you are already doing what God intends for you and simply don't realize it. God has a purpose for everyone, all His people, at least. But He doesn't send send out certified letters with instructions. And yes, there are times I wish He did.

So I suggest you keep doing what you know to be right in God's sight. He will let you know - sometimes by opportunity - what He expects.

RC1970 · Jan 5, 2017

Mark Noo said:
Scriptural support for question at end.
Ephesians 1:4 (NASB)
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

John 6:65 (NASB)
And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Acts 16:31New American Standard Bible (NASB)
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 8:28 (NASB)
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Finally, the question:
So I was elected before the foundations of the World, I had no part in that. Next God called me, the Spirit caused me to believe. Again, I did nothing. Now I am Saved. But I was not saved for the first 40 years of my life.

In those 40 years, many things happened. Some of those occurrences define who I am. Were these 40 years and the things that happened in the part of God’s plan? (is there any scriptural support for this) Or did I only become part of his plan when the Spirit entered me.

If all things work together for the “good” than these years would have to be included in the “all”. On the other hand, I know that I was God’s enemy before He called me to Him. That I acted in defiance to him. I am also aware of Compatibilism (soft determinism).

I guess what I am asking is; how far off course did I really get? I had a pretty tough life compared to most Americans. (It was not difficult compared to Third World countries and a small proportion of other Americans)

I am thinking God wanted me to have it tough for some currently unknown purpose. Do you think that is right, or did I just make a series of bad choices?

Is there any scripture that tells us when and how we are corrected if we get too far off course? I know about Jonah and Niniveh. Do you think that sort of corrective action is common, although not in such a spectacular and miraculous way, or do you think that occurred because it was a big thing? Ninevah had to repent, so Jonah had to go, also Nineveh were not Jews. This is big deal; my activities are not?

I guess I want to know how big of a micro manager God is.

Mary was chosen to be Jesus’ mother but does he pick everyone’s parents? Does he determine our personalities? Or are those things a matter of choice?

In Mathew 10:29 - 30 I read this (Alert, I changed translation to NLT, it seemed clearer)
What is the price of two sparrows—one copper coin? But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. And the very hairs on your head are all numbered.

Is knowing it the same as having to give approval?

Is there any scripture that would answer any of the above question? I am big on using scripture to support any statements I make. No mans words can convict like the Spirit's?
.................
sorry this question is so messy, it complicates how to answer, I don't know enough to be precise.

Thank you for considering this question.

It seems to me your concern is not so much about God's electing, but instead about His Providence. If I were you, I would start with a good commentary on the Providence of God.

"God's Providence" by Charles Spurgeon
"The Invisible Hand" by R.C. Sproul

jimmyjimmy · Jan 5, 2017

What part was I playing in God’s plan between the being chosen before the foundations of the world a

“You contribute nothing to your salvation except the sin that made it necessary.” - Jonathan Edwards

St_Worm2 · Jan 5, 2017

Hi Mark, first off, WELCOME TO CF :wave:

As to your question, yes, those who are elect/chosen from before the foundation of the world 'will' come to Christ and be saved (as the Lord clearly tells us that NONE will be lost who the Father draws and gives to His Son :amen:

.. i.e. John 6:37-40; cf John 6:44).

But being saved/justified, while it is of God alone (as even the "faith" that is required for us to "believe" is a gift to us from God .. Ephesians 2:8), still requires that we choose to believe (and God does not justify us until the moment that we do). If this is not true, then coming to faith would not require "hearing" (i.e. Romans 10:17; cf John 5:24).

As St. Peter appears to have written to God's elect alone:

"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" ~2 Peter 3:9

So God patiently waits for all of the elect to believe and come to saving faith in Him. The good news is, we will :amen:

Yours in Christ,
David

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who
sent Me draws him; and I will raise
him up on the last day"
John 6:44

Mark Noo · Jan 5, 2017

How about this part of the question.
Oh, again, I apologize for the question it was all over the place.

Is there any scripture that tells us when and how we are corrected if we get too far off course? I know about Jonah and Niniveh. Do you think that sort of corrective action is common, although not in such a spectacular and miraculous way, or do you think that occurred because it was a big thing? Ninevah had to repent, so Jonah had to go, also Nineveh were not Jews. This is big deal; my activities are not?

I guess I want to know how big of a micro manager God is.

Mary was chosen to be Jesus’ mother but does he pick everyone’s parents? Does he determine our personalities? Or are those things a matter of choice?

Do you think if I had went too far off track he would have sent a fish to swallow me and take me to where I belonged or do you think he gives us quite a lot of rope to play with. Not enough to hang ourselves, we are elect, but can we get quite a ways "off plan".

THanks for answering. I have a lot of questions. I haven't found a church in my area so I don't have anyone to ask questions of.

sdowney717 · Jan 12, 2017

Psalm 139 is a good read, you can not escape from God.

7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.

tdidymas · Jan 13, 2017

Mark Noo said:
How about this part of the question.
Oh, again, I apologize for the question it was all over the place.

Is there any scripture that tells us when and how we are corrected if we get too far off course? I know about Jonah and Niniveh. Do you think that sort of corrective action is common, although not in such a spectacular and miraculous way, or do you think that occurred because it was a big thing? Ninevah had to repent, so Jonah had to go, also Nineveh were not Jews. This is big deal; my activities are not?

I guess I want to know how big of a micro manager God is.

Mary was chosen to be Jesus’ mother but does he pick everyone’s parents? Does he determine our personalities? Or are those things a matter of choice?

Do you think if I had went too far off track he would have sent a fish to swallow me and take me to where I belonged or do you think he gives us quite a lot of rope to play with. Not enough to hang ourselves, we are elect, but can we get quite a ways "off plan".

THanks for answering. I have a lot of questions. I haven't found a church in my area so I don't have anyone to ask questions of.

Some years ago I got off track, and was hit with a 6-year economic hardship. It reminded me how Israel was chastised with economic hardship and slavery many times when they went astray. Heb. 12 says "do not despise the discipline of the Lord..." and to regard hardship as the loving discipline of a gracious God.

In fact, do we not have to be threatened with lake of fire judgment before we appreciate how great our salvation is? (Heb. 2:3)

Now, consider this: Prov. 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths." If you are doing this daily, then how can you get "off plan"?
TD

Mark Noo · Jan 18, 2017

St_Worm2 said:
Hi Mark, first off, WELCOME TO CF

As to your question, yes, those who are elect/chosen from before the foundation of the world 'will' come to Christ and be saved (as the Lord clearly tells us that NONE will be lost who the Father draws and gives to His Son .. i.e. John 6:37-40; cf John 6:44).

But being saved/justified, while it is of God alone (as even the "faith" that is required for us to "believe" is a gift to us from God .. Ephesians 2:8), still requires that we choose to believe (and God does not justify us until the moment that we do). If this is not true, then coming to faith would not require "hearing" (i.e. Romans 10:17; cf John 5:24).

As St. Peter appears to have written to God's elect alone:

"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" ~2 Peter 3:9

So God patiently waits for all of the elect to believe and come to saving faith in Him. The good news is, we will

Yours in Christ,
David

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who
sent Me draws him; and I will raise
him up on the last day"
John 6:44

You mention of Romans 10:17 is fortuitous. I have always wondered why we need to hear. If the Spirit comes into us and we are Christians, what do we need to hear for. The Spirit knows the scripture, having inspired it. He does not need to hear. But we do. Does this mean that we do play a part in our salvation. Because all the "predestination" "election" sermons I have heard say we do nothing. The notion that we are unable to even "stir ourselves up to seek God" come to mind. (Is "stir ourselves up" scripture?)

Why do we need to hear. This brings to mind the Ethiopian eunuch who spoke to Phillip
Acts 8:30-31
So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?

What does this mean? We have nothing to do with our salvation but we must hear it or in the above case be "guided". This sound participatory.

I don't like the suggestion that I could have a part. I know what a screw up I am. I much prefer God be in complete control.

So I guess the first question to ask is; Why do I need to hear?

sdowney717 · Feb 1, 2017

Why do we participate - interact with spiritual things?
Jesus said I have called you friends, a friend shares with his friend what they are doing.
God shares with us what He is doing in our lives.

John 15:15
No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.

You need to have spiritual ears to hear spiritual things. So God gives you spiritual ears to hear what he says.

For those who do not hear, God has given to them ears which do not hear.
In fact saying "should not hear."

Romans 11:8
Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”

Matthew 11:15
He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 13:9
He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Mark 4:9
And He said to them, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Mark 4:23
If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Mark 7:16
If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Luke 8:8
But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Luke 14:35
It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’

Revelation 2:11
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’

Revelation 2:17
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”’

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What part was I playing in God’s plan between the being chosen before the foundations of the world a

Mark Noo

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PrettyboyAndy

• Andy •

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Archie the Preacher

Apostle to the Intellectual Skeptics

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RC1970

post tenebras lux

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jimmyjimmy

Pardoned Rebel

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St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator

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Mark Noo

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sdowney717

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tdidymas

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Mark Noo

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sdowney717

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