Head Coverings in a Congregational Setting

bsd058 said:

What's the argument against it?

I've seen some pretty convincing arguments for the practice, but I want to know why this practice does not seem to be very popular, from a biblical standpoint.

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I used to wear a head covering all the time, until changing churches.
1 Corinthians 11:13Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him, 15but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.

bsd058 said:

What's the argument against it?

I've seen some pretty convincing arguments for the practice, but I want to know why this practice does not seem to be very popular, from a biblical standpoint.

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Head coverings are a matter of style and custom. Biblical references to head coverings call for following the (then) current style and custom. It is probable that the writers and readers did not realize they were only discussing a style and custom and not a fundamental moral principle. That said, fundamentally and morally one does not blatantly disregard the prevailing styles and custom, without cause.

bsd058 said:

What's the argument against it?

I've seen some pretty convincing arguments for the practice, but I want to know why this practice does not seem to be very popular, from a biblical standpoint.

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there are two large factors in the topic. one is the factor of the human hearts rebellion especially among modern woman .tell them it would be godly to do this and they rebel (just a fact .. most will place their own will to dress as self pleases rather then show any desire to submit to such a suggestion.

NOW.. note i used the word suggestion . because it is not a rule or a law to do so .in many of paul's letters he mentions the same topics across congregations he writes to . But NOT this topic . this one only arises in one of his letters to the corinthians . why ? because he is responding to their letter to him in which arguments had arisen .. the jewish believers there did this as custom the gentile believers had no such custom . paul's favors the jewish custom for reasons he outlines and says this is what we all practice generally so just tell the woman to all do it and then do away with your silly childish immature bickering about it .
-end
this is why he never writes to other congregations about it because it was only an issue at that one place and they had a lot of infighting issues . he never imposes it as a rule anywhere else because it is not a rule .

Out of LOVE and as to not offend, if your in a congregation where they do that .. do it also ..if you're in a congregation that does not . then no problem .its about love for the lord jesus first ALWAYS and love for one another .

bsd058 said:

What's the argument against it?

I've seen some pretty convincing arguments for the practice, but I want to know why this practice does not seem to be very popular, from a biblical standpoint.

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as for it's unpopularity, I'm guessing that those reasons would fall under one of three categories:
1. the liberated woman
2. we're Protestant
3. we're unaffiliated; we make our own rules

When womens lib came into being, a whole lot of rules hit the fan, and the need for a woman to be modest and under the guidance and protection of her husband or father was one of those rules.

Likewise when the Reformation happened, the rules started flying out the door, and covering became one of those lost rules.

and lastly with the completion of the reformation revolution, even church denomination coverings/supervision fled.
Instead do-it-yourself churches sprung up which bore no similarities at all to what came before them. They were free indeed!

So if the church itself is not covered by an oversight group, it is unlikely that you would find a man or woman in that church who even knew what it was to cover or why it was done.

It's kind of weird, actually. I wore a hat in church the other day, a knitted one to keep myself warm because I'm a pedestrian, so I was numb in the face and shivering by the time I got there. I had a very similar thought, I admit. I visited a church nearly a decade ago, without realizing they were one who practiced head coverings for women. I sat in on their sermon because I was curious, and they really freaked out that my head wasn't covered, I felt embarrassed and bad and left the sermon early. Then recently I'm sitting in my current church, with my head covered by a knitted hat, and I was catching some dirty look vibes from people like it was bad of me to wear my knitted hat in the church. I guess maybe it is an underlying matter of not trying to draw negative attention to one's self while in church. Hair used to be a big deal, culturally, I guess. In being realistic about my present day culture, I would never go to church in shorts or with cleavage showing and so on, but it seems most do not notice women's hair anymore, and are actually more freaked out by a knitted hat. I have a vague feeling that Jesus wouldn't care about my knitted hat or my hair, but Idunno.

Paul of Eugene OR said:

Head coverings are a matter of style and custom. Biblical references to head coverings call for following the (then) current style and custom. That said, fundamentally and morally one does not blatantly disregard the prevailing styles and custom, without cause.

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There is good cause:

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Colossians 3:9
Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices

bsd058 said:

What's the argument against it?

I've seen some pretty convincing arguments for the practice, but I want to know why this practice does not seem to be very popular, from a biblical standpoint.

Click to expand...

I think that Paul, being a man of his time and culture, recommended head coverings from a cultural rather than a Scriptural commandment perspective. Man looks upon the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.

Mrs.PGL said:

I used to wear a head covering all the time, until changing churches.
1 Corinthians 11:13Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him, 15but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory?

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The question about what nature itself teaches us is phrased as if rhetorical. But let's think about that. Do we, today, just naturally think a woman is morally off if not wearing a hat? We do not. Today Nature is NOT teaching us women should wear hats. So Paul's condition does not apply now.

For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.

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Today, the churches of God around here at least ARE inclined to allow women to have no head covering, so AGAIN we see that Paul's condition here DOES NOT APPLY these days.

I thind this entire issue quite odd as it seems to be primarily an American church issue which began in liberal Protestant denominations and now has become quite entrenched in most American denominations.

My mother, who observed the entire issue played out in the Presbyterian Church was taught the issue from a biblical standpoint and never considered attending church without a headcovering. Nowadays, as another poster observed, if a woman does happen to have a hat on her head she is shunned.

While I am on the topic I will tell an amusing anecdote. My brother married a very domineering woman who was quite insistent that I Corinthians 11 was merely cultural and assuredly had nothing to do with the present day. At one point she and her family attended a contemporary church meeting in a school gymnasium. I visited one weekend and on Sunday we went to the gym for church. The school heating was turned down to conserve energy, so the gym was quite chilly. We all had our coats on. I decided to put my nice wool stocking cap on to keep warm. As I did so, she leaned over my brother and whispered, "What are you doing?!" I whispered back, "Putting my cap on." She then whispered, "You can't do that!!" I whispered back, "Why?" She then whispered, "You are dishonoring your head!!" I whispered back, "Oh, that's just cultural, so it doesn't apply to me." At the point heads were beginning to turn. She then whispered, loudly, "Can you talk any louder?" I spoke up and said "Sure!" Then my brother intervened. She never forgave me for the sin of wearing my hat in her church.

Oscarr said:

I think that Paul, being a man of his time and culture, recommended head coverings from a cultural rather than a Scriptural commandment perspective. Man looks upon the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.

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Exactly

I wear a head covering. Here is a YouTube video that helped me to understand 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. The channel that uploaded this particular video has several others on the subject I think are worth watching too. R.C. Sproul doesn't hit every point I would but makes a fair enough argument for the practice, and the other videos on the channel argue against some other common reasons people give for not keeping the practice of women's head covering. Also, head coverings used to be common place 50-60 years ago and it was weird to see women without a covering in church. That the practice went away with the rise of feminism so recently makes me really uncomfortable and causes me even more so to think the doing away with the practice was wrong.

Northern Star said:

I wear a head covering. Here is a YouTube video that helped me to understand 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. The channel that uploaded this particular video has several others on the subject I think are worth watching too. R.C. Sproul doesn't hit every point I would but makes a fair enough argument for the practice, and the other videos on the channel argue against some other common reasons people give for not keeping the practice of women's head covering. Also, head coverings used to be common place 50-60 years ago and it was weird to see women without a covering in church. That the practice went away with the rise of feminism so recently makes me really uncomfortable and causes me even more so to think the doing away with the practice was wrong.

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Thank you. I went through a similar process and, although I am a man, I try to encourage men to have short hair and leave their heads uncovered in worship and encourage women to cover their heads.

The argument against head coverings is that
1. It was referring to long hair, not hats or veils
2. Short hair on women was considered disgraceful, or a sign of rebellion. This is a CULTURAL thing, not an absolute. In our culture, short hair does NOT carry those connotations, nor does wearing a hat mean you are being extra respectful if you are a woman. In fact,in SoCal where I live, if a woman wears a hat, it almost always means:

• You are deliberately trying to be eccentric
• It's a hot day and you are creating shade for your face
• You are a soccer mom or a dodgers fan

If I'm going to a Latin Mass (which I do about once a month), then wearing a chapel veil IS considered a sign of respect towards God, and I do wear one. However, if I am going to a regular Mass, no woman covers her head and neither do I.

You have to go by the rules of the culture, just as the Christians in Paul's day did.

Head coverings are not a doctrine, not an ordinance, but a discipline, therefore changeable. Paul is advocating the virtue of humility, which is more becoming on a woman than a $200 hat, IMO.

kepha31 said:

Head coverings are not a doctrine, not an ordinance, but a discipline, therefore changeable. Paul is advocating the virtue of humility, which is more becoming on a woman than a $200 hat, IMO.

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$200 hat??? Who here is advocating for $200 hats?

Would you also say that women ought not to wear shoes because some shoes cost $200?

bbbbbbb said:

$200 hat??? Who here is advocating for $200 hats?

Would you also say that women ought not to wear shoes because some shoes cost $200?

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No, I wouldn't say that. You are being hyper-literal and missed the main point of my post. The virtue of humility is not just misunderstood, it's ignored. Maybe that's why you nit picked my post.

kepha31 said:

No, I wouldn't say that. You are being hyper-literal and missed the main point of my post. The virtue of humility is not just misunderstood, it's ignored. Maybe that's why you nit picked my post.

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The problem, of course, is that we are all prone to judge the motives of others, especially when they are doing something we ought to be doing ourselves. Therefore, it is a simple matter to condemn the other person for doing the right thing, but for the wrong motive. Who am I to judge?

bbbbbbb said:

$200 hat??? Who here is advocating for $200 hats?

Would you also say that women ought not to wear shoes because some shoes cost $200?

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You apparently have no idea how much a good hat costs. I once spent $140 on a hat because it put the finishing touches on a 1940's "Casa Blanca" suit I had made. And it wasn't even made out of fancy materials, except the bow. Oh, those were the days when I actually had money! I really, really like hats. I have to exert self control to rein in my eccentricity and fit in better. Even my Avatar is wearing a hat!

Open Heart said:

You apparently have no idea how much a good hat costs. I once spent $140 on a hat because it put the finishing touches on a 1940's "Casa Blanca" suit I had made. And it wasn't even made out of fancy materials, except the bow. Oh, those were the days when I actually had money! I really, really like hats. I have to exert self control to rein in my eccentricity and fit in better. Even my Avatar is wearing a hat!

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Assuredly I know the cost of ladies' (and gentlemen's) attire, having escorted my mother to various milliners and shoe stores on shopping expeditions.

Did my mother purchase expensive hats? Very, very rarely. When did she wear her hats? When she was out in public (helped greatly in covering otherwise difficult hair) not just in church. Did my mother feel compelled to purchase expensive attire? Never.

A lady can modestly and beautifully adorn her head (not just in church) for $10 or less. Cost is not a issue here.