"Work out your own salvation"

fhansen said:

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  Well, i hope I can disagree as well. Salvation is a package deal. It's realized by the way we live out our lives, with what we do with what we're given. Scripture reveals that branches grafted in can always be cut off, soil can first sprout the seed but later fail to keep it from withering and dying, faith can be rejected, the heavenly gift can be tasted but later spurned. Salvation, justification, and sanctification cannot be separated.

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I sure hope you're wrong. Because if you're right we don't have any hope for salvation. It is Christ Jesus that did the "work" for us. It is the "work" of Christ Jesus that is accounted towards us. Not what we do.
In fact I see people working for their salvation as rather selfish. They work to acheive salvation hoping to get their butts saved from hell and into heaven.
Those that understand Christ worked and died for them "work out their salvation" to glorify God. There is a BIG difference between the two concepts.

believeume said:

Indeed, I don't think John the Baptist was one of those Bible bashing hell thumping preachers.

He would be interesting to travel around with.

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He did point out sin and the need for repentance.

redleghunter said:

He did point out sin and the need for repentance.

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Like if he lived today telling hillary clinton and donald trump and obama and the senators and the congressmen they are living in sin and need to repent - like the two witnesses will do world wide ... without pulling their punches and without compromising sin for anyone ....

believeume said:

To become like Christ is to become like me? Then who am I? Nothing but to become like him?

And here I have stupid ideas that God likes peculiar people.

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And who are the peculiar people whom God is said to like??? Not sure where that one came from.

Anyway, yes, our identity is intimately tied up with Christ's, simply because our true identity-who we're intended to be-is achievable only to the extent that we're in communion with God. Otherwise man becomes something else, something less-that's a primary message of the story of the Fall.

-57 said:

I sure hope you're wrong. Because if you're right we don't have any hope for salvation. It is Christ Jesus that did the "work" for us. It is the "work" of Christ Jesus that is accounted towards us. Not what we do.
In fact I see people working for their salvation as rather selfish. They work to acheive salvation hoping to get their butts saved from hell and into heaven.
Those that understand Christ worked and died for them "work out their salvation" to glorify God. There is a BIG difference between the two concepts.

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People who know that they must play a role in their salvation are generally of the humbler class, because they don't presume salvation. In fact, no one can even know with 100% certainty who is saved and who is not anyway; God, alone, knows whose names are written in the Book of Life with that degree of assuredness. Our hope of salvation is in Him. But, from Adam on, God does not force His will on humanity. Rather He works to elicit, to draw, our right response to His grace, to Him. But Scripture is replete with the notion that not all will be saved even though God desires otherwise, that believers can be cut off by their own actions, that we must strive, cooperating with grace.

And what of the unsaved? At least in my scenario they had a chance-the chance to choose life over death, good over evil, God over no God, even as grace would always be necessary to help prompt them to do so.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Who followed Y'SHUA ? (in the NEW TESTAMENT)
Who followed YHWH ? (in the OLD TESTAMENT)

People who felt good enough,
or people who felt not good enough ?

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People who "feel good enough" for God deny salvation by grace alone. Salvation by grace alone denies the right for anyone to feel worthy or "good enough" (in the sense of merit).

TaylorSexton said:

People who "feel good enough" for God deny salvation by grace alone.

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As the question asks,
so then, you think people who "feel good enough" do not follow God ?
And then what do people who do not "feel good enough for God" DO ,THEY DO or DON'T follow God ?

From strength to strength


Psalm 84:5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.
6
As they pass through the Valley of Baka,
they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools.[d]
7
They go from strength to strength,
till each appears before God in Zion.
8
Hear my prayer, Lord God Almighty;
listen to me, God of Jacob.
9
Look on our shield,[e] O God;
look with favor on your anointed one.
10
Better is one day in your courts
than a thousand elsewhere;
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

Psalm 27:13 I remain confident of this:
I will see the goodness of the Lord
in the land of the living.
14
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart
and wait for the Lord.

Isaiah 40:31 but those who hope in the Lord
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint.

believeume said:

Is salvation in your hands?

What are you supposed to work out?

And

Why do so many Christians try to work out other peoples salvation for them?

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You would be working out sanctification that is becoming more like Jesus.

II Peter chapter one and Galatians five relates to this.

believeume said:

Is salvation in your hands?

What are you supposed to work out?

And

Why do so many Christians try to work out other peoples salvation for them?

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Whatever you have to do to have, maintain, and keep a heart that continues to have the Love of God, that is, God's Love in it, and in you... To have, maintain, and keep the Spirit of God in you after being born again, whatever makes you lose this, can threaten your salvation...

The big question is what does having the Love of God in you mean? As for myself, I have days where I have this in me, but, also days where I get angry, full of hate, and get critical and judgmental, and I know it's not right, were here to help each other with our struggles, and this rarely helps... (with some exceptions, see below) were here to help each other be and become better and overcome, to counsel, advise, teach, comfort, guide, direct, lead each other out (of sin), to "help" each other out of Love, also to lead each other to a personal relationship with God, to show each other how God is Love and can help, being reflected in how we try to help one another, not to just judge and criticize and condemn out of Hate and not Love...

There are times when a rebuke out of Love might be needed, but, this is dangerous ground for us, if were not doing it with the ultimate goal of helping in mind, of sincerely, truly, loving and caring, which most don't, except God himself that is... It is very dangerous ground for us and threatens our salvation, if the reasons, motives, thoughts and intentions in the heart are not right... This does not mean we shouldn't do it all either, however... Not saying anything at all, when we should is a lack of Godly Love and care also... It's a slippery slope...

It might be helpful if you try to discern whether or not a person is aware of their wrong or not, if their not even aware of it, very gently and meekly and mildly "point it out" but very gently, in a spirit of meekness, mildness, humbleness and humility... And, try to help if their receptive, if not, if they get angry, excuse yourself and leave...

If they are clearly aware of it, however, the wrong that their doing, but just don't seem to care, but like and enjoy and are even proud of it very much, and seek to promote it in others, that is, what is clearly wrong, and they know it, promote and spread it as good, or they think it is funny or right, like a sick, perverse, sexual, or prejudicial joke demeaning or belittling something or someone else, and you can see that they know it's wrong and sick, but just don't care and/but love it, and love what they can clearly see it is doing to others, in that kind of situation, it might be necessary to confront them boldly and directly and confront them with a sharp rebuke, risking a fight or confrontation for the sake of what is right, in this situation, might be appropriate to express "righteous anger" perhaps...

The third scenario, is where someone is aware of their wrong, but already feels bad enough about it, in this situation, try to help, cause these people want out of it, and need your help, so, help them... (counsel, advise, teach, comfort, guide, direct, lead each other out (of sin)...

In other words, if they don't know, point it out, but very gently, and either help or leave depending on their reaction(s) and receptiveness... If they clearly do and just don't care, administer a rebuke and confront them bravely and boldly... If they do know and do care very much about it and don't like it at all, but hate it, try to help, (see above) don't push them under any further...

God Bless!

fhansen said:

People who know that they must play a role in their salvation are generally of the humbler class, because they don't presume salvation. In fact, no one can even know with 100% certainty who is saved and who is not anyway; God, alone, knows whose names are written in the Book of Life with that degree of assuredness. Our hope of salvation is in Him. But, from Adam on, God does not force His will on humanity. Rather He works to elicit, to draw, our right response to His grace, to Him. But Scripture is replete with the notion that not all will be saved even though God desires otherwise, that believers can be cut off by their own actions, that we must strive, cooperating with grace.

And what of the unsaved? At least in my scenario they had a chance-the chance to choose life over death, good over evil, God over no God, even as grace would always be necessary to help prompt them to do so.

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Perhaps I'm getting this wrong...but it sounds like in your faith...Jesus alone isn't enough to save you.

It's not what you do that saves you:

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

2nd Tim 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God

Phillipians 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

-57 said:

It's not what you do that saves you:

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Don't leave out nor forget part of YHWH'S WORD.
What about RAHAB ? ..... (et al)

Paul does not exhort us to work out our own sanctification, as some claim; he urges us to work out our own salvation.
Posters have neglected the key phrase, "with fear and trembling." Why the fear? Obviously because the stakes couldn't be greater; we might forfeit our salvation through spiritual sloth! What the eternal security crowd forget is that the Greek (pistis) and Hebew (amunah) word for "faith" is not accurately translated by that word; it also means "faithfulness," which must be "worked out" in fear that our efforts are too superfificial:

"Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

The same thought is expressed in 1 Corinthians 9:24: " I punish my body and enslave it, so that after having proclaiming to others, I myself self should not be disqualified (Greek: adokimos)." Elsewhere in Paul, adokimos alludes to the unsaved. It is a mistake to trivialize this verse as a reference to Paul's disqualification from his ministry. Question: Disqualified from what? Answer: From the prize. And what is the prize? The prize of salvation for which even his readers must work hard for, readers who are not involved in ministry (9:24-25)! Does all this hard work imply salvation through works? Of course not! These works are a necessary but not a sufficient condition for salvation (James 2:14, 18). We are saved by grace.
,

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Don't leave out nor forget part of YHWH'S WORD.
What about RAHAB ? ..... (et al)

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You'll need to explain your reply a little better.

-57 said:

You'll need to explain your reply a little better.

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If RAHAB did not put a ribbon in the window,
she and her family with her would have died.
For example.

How much work does one need to do inorder to gain salvation?
Please provide a chapter and verse.

-57 said:

How much work does one need to do inorder to gain salvation?
Please provide a chapter and verse.

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How much work did RAHAB do ?
Her family with her did nothing except join her in her dwelling.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

If RAHAB did not put a ribbon in the window,
she and her family with her would have died.
For example.

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That doesn't mean they were saved from the act of putting a ribbon in the window.....they just did't die that day.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

How much work did RAHAB do ?
Her family with her did nothing except join her in her dwelling.

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Rahab was saved by faith. She demonstrated her faith by doing..