Prophetic promises to Israel

They are according to Gal. 4:28.

It is inconceivable that unbelieving Jews and believing Gentiles could simultaneously be the children of promise.

Biblewriter said:

The hard fact remains undeniable and unchangeable, that the physical descendants of the ancient nation of Israel have been promised a future restoration to their ancient homeland, and to their God. The scriptures simply could not be more clear about this, and ALL arguments to the contrary are based on interpretations of what other scriptures mean, rather than on what they actually say.

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There is no circumcision (thus no covenantal entitlement to the Land see Genesis 17:14)

There is no Law (thus no covenantal entitlement to the Land see Deut. 30:1-4,15-20; Ezekiel 20:38)

They were promised one restoration to the land, post-Babylonian Captivity.

While the Mosaic Covenant stood, nobody received their heavenly inheritance YET, but they could receive a temporary substitute if they observed circumcision and the Law - namely Palestine.

But now under the New Covenant, heaven has opened its gates wide for the Israel of God (Galatians 6:15-16) and the land promises have been invalidated. It is not Christ's purpose to rule from natural Jerusalem - John 18:36.

What do you think the writer of Hebrews is hitting on in Hebrews 11 namely about Abraham?

Palestine was a substitute, a type, a shadow representation of the real deal, the real deal is the Kingdom of God... namely heaven itself.

Biblewriter said:

...the promises to the ancient nation of Israel, (which have unquestionably not been fulfilled,...)

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God sent His Son, His only Son, to live a perfect sinless life and to die a cruel death at Calvary so that anyone who places their faith in Him can live forever.

And some people think it was not enough...


"Taking Hold of the New Covenant"
Pastor David Wilkerson

Biblewriter said:

For you have demonstrated that you are simply unable to defend any denial of the promises to the ancient nation of Israel, (which have unquestionably not been fulfilled,)

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Still awaiting your confirmation, Biblewriter, in Gal. 4:28, of believing Gentiles being a fulfillment of the children of promise...

The Hope of Israel...

https://www.oneforisrael.org/

The identification, in Gal. 4:28, of Gentile believers being included as the children of promise is significant, but the true significance lies in the fact that they are believers. Ethnicity is irrelevant.

This is fully consistent with Gal. 3:28-29, which specifically rejects ethnicity as a criterion ("There is neither Jew nor Greek..."). Belonging to Christ is the sole criterion for determining inheritance according to the promise, and thus, being a child of promise.

Also then explained is the reason why Israel after the flesh in Rom. 9:3, i.e. Jewish unbelievers, are not the children of God (Rom. 9:8), are not the children of the promise, and cannot be counted for the seed. Their ethnicity as Jews is irrelevant. They are excluded because they are unbelievers, which accounts for Paul's anguish concerning them.

The anguish can be assuaged, but only "...if they abide not still in unbelief..." (Rom. 11:23).

BABerean2 said:

"Taking Hold of the New Covenant"

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This is an inspirational blessing, BAB...

Biblewriter said:

When absolutely all of "the house of Israel" is again inhabiting "the mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken." (Ezekiel 36:1-10) And when the map of Israel corresponds to the borders so precisely defined in Ezekiel 47:13-20, then you can legitimately claim that the promises have been fulfilled. But until these have actually happened, it is sheer nonsense to even pretend that they have been fulfilled.

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Why not go ahead to chapter 37, if you want to get the complete picture.

(Eze 37:1)　 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
(Eze 37:2)　 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
(Eze 37:3)　 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
(Eze 37:4)　 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
(Eze 37:5)　 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
(Eze 37:6)　 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
(Eze 37:7)　 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
(Eze 37:8)　 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
(Eze 37:9)　 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
(Eze 37:10)　 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
(Eze 37:11)　 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
(Eze 37:12)　 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.


The passage above clearly gives an account of the resurrection of the dead.
However, Dispensationalists often spiritualize it to make it about the modern State of Israel.
A day is coming when the dead will come out of their graves and stand upon their feet.
We find the same thing in Daniel chapter 12.


(Eze 37:13)　 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
(Eze 37:14)　 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

(Joh 14:26　 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.)

He has put His Holy Spirit inside of those within the New Covenant.


(Eze 37:15)　 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
(Eze 37:16)　 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
(Eze 37:17)　 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
(Eze 37:18)　 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
(Eze 37:19)　 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
(Eze 37:20)　 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
(Eze 37:21)　 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
(Eze 37:22)　 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

And who is that king who is the King of kings? Lord of lords...

(Act 2:36)　 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (One stick united with one king.)

(Eze 37:23)　 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
(Eze 37:24)　 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

And who is the descendant of David who is the shepherd?


(Eze 37:25)　 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Again, who is the descendant of David who will be the prince "forever"?

(Eze 37:26)　 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

This "everlasting covenant" is the New Covenant of Christ found in Hebrews 13:20.

(Heb 13:20　 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,)

(Eze 37:27)　 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

That "tabernacle" is the Lord Jesus Christ, not some rebuilt temple in this rotten, sin-cursed world.

(Eze 37:28)　 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Christ is the temple of God.


How long is "evermore"?

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Biblewriter said:

Thus we see that the scriptures indeed contain many explicitly stated promises to the ancient nation of Israel. And we see that it is absolutely impossible to even pretend that these promises have ever been fulfilled. And it is totally irrational to imagine that they are actually speaking of the church.

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I read through most... I honestly could write a small book on this topic. But there is one verse that is often overlooked in context and it tells us that there is plenty left on the table.

Under David and Solomon, Israel enjoyed it's best times as a nation. After Solomon, we see the nation of Israel divide into two parts. The southern Kingdom, Judah and the northern Kingdom, Israel. Judah lived, predominantly in good standing with God until they drifted away enough to find themselves in Babylon around 585BC. They would, however, make it home. Israel (the Northern Kingdom) drifted away quickly after Solomon and eventually was taken captive by Assyria, this was in 722BC. Israel did NOT come home and is still in the nations today. How do I know?

There are MANY reasons I can list, but I will list just two for brevity sake. When Israel went into Assyria they did not repent, instead, they assimilated into Assyrian culture and accepted their many gods. The true God then "gave them up" to their idols and Israel lost it's identity... they simply became the people they assimilated into. From Assyria they end up scattered into all nations and have been known, historically, as the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. All of these claims that tribes have been found keeping Torah in remote African mountains and other places is wrong... it is just plain wrong. They lost their identity, they accepted foreign gods, they CEASED to walk in God's ways and keep Him in their minds. To think we would find some "Lost Sheepers" keeping Torah and serving YHWH stands against Scripture. Instead, we should expect to find them in the nations, looking like the pagans they became.

The second thing is there has not been a king over a united Israel since Solomon... and there won't be until Yeshua returns. The prophet Hosea wrote:

Hosea 1:11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head; And they shall come up out of the land, For great will be the day of Jezreel!

They haven't appointed a head, a king... they are still scattered which is what Jezreel means. Until there is a king reigning in Jerusalem, the most prophesied event, the reunification of ALL of Israel, has not happened.

Ken Rank said:

I read through most... I honestly could write a small book on this topic. But there is one verse that is often overlooked in context and it tells us that there is plenty left on the table.

Under David and Solomon, Israel enjoyed it's best times as a nation. After Solomon, we see the nation of Israel divide into two parts. The southern Kingdom, Judah and the northern Kingdom, Israel. Judah lived, predominantly in good standing with God until they drifted away enough to find themselves in Babylon around 585BC. They would, however, make it home. Israel (the Northern Kingdom) drifted away quickly after Solomon and eventually was taken captive by Assyria, this was in 722BC. Israel did NOT come home and is still in the nations today. How do I know?

There are MANY reasons I can list, but I will list just two for brevity sake. When Israel went into Assyria they did not repent, instead, they assimilated into Assyrian culture and accepted their many gods. The true God then "gave them up" to their idols and Israel lost it's identity... they simply became the people they assimilated into. From Assyria they end up scattered into all nations and have been known, historically, as the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. All of these claims that tribes have been found keeping Torah in remote African mountains and other places is wrong... it is just plain wrong. They lost their identity, they accepted foreign gods, they CEASED to walk in God's ways and keep Him in their minds. To think we would find some "Lost Sheepers" keeping Torah and serving YHWH stands against Scripture. Instead, we should expect to find them in the nations, looking like the pagans they became.

The second thing is there has not been a king over a united Israel since Solomon... and there won't be until Yeshua returns. The prophet Hosea wrote:

Hosea 1:11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head; And they shall come up out of the land, For great will be the day of Jezreel!

They haven't appointed a head, a king... they are still scattered which is what Jezreel means. Until there is a king reigning in Jerusalem, the most prophesied event, the reunification of ALL of Israel, has not happened.

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The New Covenant found in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is promised to Israel and Judah. In Matthew 26:28 Christ made it clear that He would fulfill this New Covenant in His Blood. On the day of Pentecost Peter addressed those present as... "men of Judea", then "men of Israel" and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel"

(Act 2:36)　 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Paul said we are ministers of this New Covenant.

(2Co 3:6)　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.



We find this New Covenant fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 12:24, and it is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

Also, remember how James addressed his letter found below.

(Jas 1:1)　 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
(Jas 1:2)　 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
(Jas 1:3)　 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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BABerean2 said:

The New Covenant found in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is promised to Israel and Judah. In Matthew 26:28 Christ made it clear that He would fulfill this New Covenant in His Blood. On the day of Pentecost Peter addressed those present as... "men of Judea", then "men of Israel" and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel"

(Act 2:36)　 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Paul said we are ministers of this New Covenant.

(2Co 3:6)　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.



We find this New Covenant fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 12:24, and it is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

Also, remember how James addressed his letter found below.

(Jas 1:1)　 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
(Jas 1:2)　 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
(Jas 1:3)　 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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The covenant wording says that when it happens there will "no longer be a need to teach every man his brother because ALL will know the LORD." I ask, do ALL know the LORD? No.... is there still a need to teach? Yes... therefore, we are not there yet. It is from the blood he shed, just not implemented yet. We are His, don't misunderstand... but the covenant is not renewed yet. Blessings.

Ken Rank said:

The covenant wording says that when it happens there will "no longer be a need to teach every man his brother because ALL will know the LORD." I ask, do ALL know the LORD? No.... is there still a need to teach? Yes... therefore, we are not there yet. It is from the blood he shed, just not implemented yet. We are His, don't misunderstand... but the covenant is not renewed yet. Blessings.

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In other words, it would be like those in this New Covenant would have their own internal teacher.

(Joh 14:26)　 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


You are correct. We have a teacher inside of us, who shall teach us all things.
He was sent on the Day of Pentecost, and now indwells all of those in the New Covenant.


No one can read 2 Corinthians 3:6 or Hebrews 8:6 or Hebrews 12:24 and honestly say it is not now in effect, since the text of these verses is in the present tense when written almost 2,000 years ago.

Paul also talks about 2 covenants in Galatians 4:24. He identifies one of those covenants as the Sinai covenant and compels the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of bondage.
Therefore, the other covenant must be the New Covenant found in 2 Corinthians 3:6.

The Greek word translated as "covenant" and "testament" are the same Greek word.

G1242

διαθήκη

diathēkē

dee-ath-ay'-kay

From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

Total KJV occurrences: 33

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BABerean2 said:

In other words, it would be like those in this New Covenant would have their own internal teacher.

(Joh 14:26)　 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


You are correct. We have a teacher inside of us, who shall teach us all things.
He was sent on the Day of Pentecost, and now indwells all of those in the New Covenant.


No one can read 2 Corinthians 3:6 or Hebrews 8:6 or Hebrews 12:24 and honestly say it is not now in effect, since the text of these verses is in the present tense when written almost 2,000 years ago.

Paul also talks about 2 covenants in Galatians 4:24. He identifies one of those covenants as the Sinai covenant and compels the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of bondage.
Therefore, the other covenant must be the New Covenant found in 2 Corinthians 3:6.

The Greek word translated as "covenant" and "testament" are the same Greek word.

G1242

διαθήκη

diathēkē

dee-ath-ay'-kay

From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

Total KJV occurrences: 33

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I don't care if we don't agree on this. If you want additional insights and answers, I will give them. Otherwise, I am fine stopping here. Shalom!

Thanks, BAB, for your powerful and persuasive defenses of "the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." (Jude 3)

jgr said:

Thanks, BAB, for your powerful and persuasive defenses of "the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." (Jude 3)

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I love you too, Brother.
I appreciate your willingness to speak the truth in love.

I agree with Pastor David Wilkerson. The modern Church needs to understand the New Covenant, in order to prepare us for our battle with the enemy. It is the marriage contract fulfilled in Blood at Calvary (Matthew 26:28). Eternal life only comes by being a part of this marriage, through faith in Christ. Christ reveals this in His parable about those invited to the wedding.

I have to wonder how many more people could have been saved if they had been shown how the New Covenant connects the New Testament to the Old Testament and how it makes the whole Bible a book about Christ?

Tremendous confusion has come from those who claim the New Covenant is just a "new administration" of the old covenant and those who claim that that New Covenant is something only for the modern State of Israel and not for the Church.

If we take the text at face value, instead of forcing it to fit manmade doctrines, the truth could not be any clearer.

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Biblewriter said:

Random Person, thank you for your confirmation of what I said. For you have demonstrated that you are simply unable to defend any denial of the promises to the ancient nation of Israel, (which have unquestionably not been fulfilled,) without resorting to interpretations of the meaning of other scriptures. For there is not even a part of a sentence, anywhere in the entire Bible, that actually states the conclusions you are drawing from these scriptures.

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There was a removal of circumcision - Genesis 17:14, Joshua 5:1-9 c.f. Colossians 3:11

There was a removal of the Law - Deuteronomy 30:1-4 c.f. Hebrews 8:13

Without which Israel had no rights to the land. Circumcision is gone, the Mosaic Covenant is gone.

Are you calling Joshua a liar? Joshua 21:43-45, Joshua 23:13-14. None of God's promises failed.

Are you calling David and Solomon a liar? 2 Samuel 8:3, 1 Kings 4:21, 1 Chronicles 18:3, 2 Chronicles 9:26 Both David and Solomon possessed the promised land to its farthest borders.

Are you calling Nehemiah a liar? Nehemiah 9:8, Nehemiah 9:15, Nehemiah 9:23-24 God performed His word and they possessed the land.

Are you calling Jeremiah a liar? Jeremiah 11:5 As it is this day.

random person said:

There was a removal of the Law - Deuteronomy 30:1-4 c.f. Hebrews 8:13

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I want to make one technical point, that you may or may not agree with.

I have come to understand that Christ did not get rid of the law. He fulfilled it and brought in a New Covenant, making the Sinai covenant "obsolete". This may seem like a small point, however it is exactly what we find in the text.

Christ said in Matthew chapter 5 that He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.
He was the only one ever able to keep it.

If this is what you mean by "removal", I would be in agreement.

When a builder completes a contract to build a house, the contract becomes completed and thus obsolete.
The contract is not destroyed and the house is not destroyed.
Neither of them are "removed". They are both completed.

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BABerean2 said:

I want to make one technical point, that you may or may not agree with.

I have come to understand that Christ did not get rid of the law. He fulfilled it and brought in a New Covenant, making the Sinai covenant "obsolete". This may seem like a small point, however it is exactly what we find in the text.

Christ said in Matthew chapter 5 that He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.
He was the only one ever able to keep it.

If this is what you mean by "removal", I would be in agreement.

When a builder completes a contract to build a house, the contract becomes completed and thus obsolete.
The contract is not destroyed and the house is not destroyed.
Neither of them are "removed". They are both completed.

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The Law could not pass away until the Law and the Prophets were completely fulfilled first.

Israel is also known as Heaven and Earth. This is the heaven and earth referenced to in Isaiah 65 & Isaiah 66. These two chapters encompass the events of the 1st century.

In Isaiah 51:15-16 (this passage is best rendered in the KJV/NKJV), when God delivered the Israelites from the Egyptians by the dividing of the Red Sea and the giving of the Law, this passage says God did so, that He may plant the Heavens and lay the foundations of the earth. If this passage is speaking about the material Heavens and Earth, why does it say that He may plant and lay the Heavens and the Earth IF THEY ALREADY PRE-EXISTED before the dividing the Red Sea and Mt. Sinai. But guess what?

The original Hebrew word for plant is nata (#5193). It has two meanings:

plant, with accusative of tree or vine
plant, figurative = establish, usually of establishing people, with accusative

The original Hebrew word for lay is yasad (#3245). It has one meaning:

Founded or to be founded

The death on the cross did not complete all the promises God gave to Israel including His own resurrection, the resurrection (the very Hope of Israel itself - Acts of the Apostles 24, 26), the last days of the Jewish Age (see Song of Moses Deut. 32:15-43, Isaiah 65, Isaiah 66). The Law couldn't pass away at the death of Christ as that would render God a liar and covenant breaker. He delivered the Gospel to the Jews for a full generation. Whereas God in the days of Jonah gave Nineveh only 40 days to repent and repent they did, God gave Israel a full 40 years to repent and repent they did not fulfilling the Deut. 32, Isaiah 65, Isaiah 66, Daniel 12:1-7, etc.

Jesus was not finished with natural Israel and its prophecies/promises at the cross, but was finished with natural Israel in A.D. 70. When Hebrews was written, at that present time the Law was in the process of passing away yet had not completely passed away (8:13).