John MacArthur blaspheming Holy Ghost

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Can't you read? I said I knew nothing about him.
I followed someone else's link who was promoting him.
In the link, his own teachings, were contrary to Scripture.

When I goooogled to see if I could find the link again,
I couldn't (it was last year sometime).

Instead, I found many others likewise who found and exposed his false antichrist teachings.

Like many other false prophets and false teachers today,
he's been exposed.
There are many - I don't think anyone should watch any of them nor study them - there's NO DIRECTIVE in Scripture to follow someone with false teaching, NOR to study them.

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You have nothing to base it on, no quotes, no teachings you claim are false, you just shun his teaching based on something you found at random. If I'm going to call someone a false teacher or differ to someone who has 'exposed' him it would be proper to show what has been exposed. I certainly am not going to depend on random third parties for the indictment.

Post Tenebras Lux said:

I don't think the poster has anything against MacArthur.

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The actual posts suggest otherwise

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Instead, I found many others likewise who found and exposed his false antichrist teachings.

Like many other false prophets and false teachers today,
he's been exposed.

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Looks like the poster has a problem to me.

As far as MacArthur is concerned, I don't agree with him on everything, but he is, without doubt, one of the greatest expositors of Scripture in our age, at the very least.

A lot of people don't like what he has to say because of his to-the-point attitude that cuts through superstition, experiential nonsense and what men claim; he goes to the source and lets it speak for itself, as any good Pastor and expositor of Scripture should.

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He certainly has a great teaching ministry, originally on the radio, a cassette lending library and now online. He is a solid Calvinist and evangelical in an age dominated by liberal theology in all it's forms and fashions. There is no indication of blaspheme in his teachings but there is a clear case of slander in this thread. It wouldn't be so bad if the accusers were actually referencing the offensive material but for some reason they don't want to produce it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

mark kennedy said:

the offensive material but for some reason they don't want to produce it.

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It is best not to. But as you seek it, it will be exposed for you as soon as YHWH permits.
IF you really cared, you already would have checked it out, yourself,
and on the link that was provided sometime ago for your use.

IF you don't really care, you won't (and apparently did not)
check it out,
you won't (and apparently did not) check it out to see what is false and what is true.

The BEREANS did not trust what Paul or Apollos or You or I said, they went and CHECKED IT OUT THEMSELVES BEFORE accepting it,
and what they found FALSE, they rejected.

IF you check it out, IF you TEST IT by SCRIPTURE (what was already provided you), then you will also.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

It is best not to. But as you seek it, it will be exposed for you as soon as YHWH permits.
IF you really cared, you already would have checked it out, yourself,
and on the link that was provided sometime ago for your use.

IF you don't really care, you won't (and apparently did not)
check it out,
you won't (and apparently did not) check it out to see what is false and what is true.

The BEREANS did not trust what Paul or Apollos or You or I said, they went and CHECKED IT OUT THEMSELVES BEFORE accepting it,
and what they found FALSE, they rejected.

IF you check it out, IF you TEST IT by SCRIPTURE (what was already provided you), then you will also.

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Your not referring to anything remotely substantive because somehow Jesus prohibits it. I not only discused what he teaches I quoted, cited and linked to it. Its called trolling, dredging up negativity and your arguments are baseless slander.

mark kennedy said:

Your not referring to anything remotely substantive because somehow Jesus prohibits it.

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When it is time...
meantime, Jesus is just letting you have more rope.
Nothing you've posted so far (apparently: I haven't read everything or checked out your other posts) qualifies that other one as a man of YHWH nor as a follower immersed in Y'SHUA living HIS LIFE or preaching truth.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

When it is time...
meantime, Jesus is just letting you have more rope.
Nothing you've posted so far (apparently: I haven't read everything or checked out your other posts) qualifies that other one as a man of YHWH nor as a follower immersed in Y'SHUA living HIS LIFE or preaching truth.

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What are you, some kind of a self styled prophet? What time is appropriate to actually learn what someone teaches a false doctrine? Shouldn't that before you judge someone you know nothing about?

You not making a lot of sense here, if that's what you call Jesus or Yahwew living you must be confused.

Why I Am a Cessationist

The above is an article from Gospel Coalition.

I think the Church has matured since being given the miraculous gifts. The gifts in history were ceased at one point (except by known heretics), and so I believe we (as the Church) put away "childish things," so to speak. I used to be Pentecostal.

bsd058 said:

Why I Am a Cessationist

The above is an article from Gospel Coalition.

I think the Church has matured since being given the miraculous gifts. The gifts in history were ceased at one point (except by known heretics), and so I believe we (as the Church) put away "childish things," so to speak. I used to be Pentecostal.

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At the very least we can agree that they aren't being used in the manner that they were intended.

I'm a cessationist too and you don't even need to do much digging to realise that people aren't out in the world doing miracles to bring people to Christ or at least, as it was in Scripture, to add weight to their claims.

Doing it in an isolated and controlled environment is quite different. You have an audience that has already bought in to it and, more than that, want it to be true... so it's an easy sell only made easier when there are people planted in the audience which has been evidenced in the past countless times.

I also think that prophecy is no longer needed.

2 Tim 3:16-17 indicates that everything we need is in Scripture. Here's my reasoning.

Either (1) or (2) below is true, by necessity.

(1) Prophecy is not needed today; or,
(2) Prophecy is needed today.

Assume (2) Prophecy is needed today.

(3) Prophecy that is needed for today should be included in Scripture, since Scripture today includes everything the man of God needs to be fully equipped (2 Tim 3:16-17).

But, (4) No one today would ever include today's prophecy in Scripture.

Based on (4) and (3), (2) cannot be true.

Therefore, by reductio ad absurdum, (1) must be true.

Once the perfect word of God was completed (canon closed), there was no need for the prophetic gift any longer. Obviously, my brain is fallen, so forgive me if the argument I use is faulty in any area.

So you can get it straight from the horse's mouth, here's what Dr. MacArthur believes concerning the Holy Spirit (this is part of the doctrinal statement from his website, GTY.org)

St_Worm2 said:

. . . . . . . We teach, in this respect, that God the Holy Spirit is sovereign in the bestowing of all His gifts for the perfecting of the saints today, and that speaking in tongues and the working of sign miracles in the beginning days of the church were for the purpose of pointing to and authenticating the apostles as revealers of divine truth, and were never intended to be characteristic of the lives of believers (1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 13:8-10; 2 Corinthians 12:12; Ephesians 4:7 12; Hebrews 2:1-4).

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Except for the final paragraph that I have quoted I would say that everything else was pretty well spot on. As for this particular paragraph, this is where he has come completely unstuck as it bears absolutely no semblance to the Scriptures. This complete misrepresentation of the Scriptures (actually its a travesty) has placed him square against the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Biblicist said:

Except for the final paragraph that I have quoted I would say that everything else was pretty well spot on. As for this particular paragraph, this is where he has come completely unstuck as it bears absolutely no semblance to the Scriptures. This complete misrepresentation of the Scriptures (actually its a travesty) has placed him square against the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit.

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I personally think his references are correctly used.

We as Christians are all Apostles of Jesus Christ.
God is no respecter of Persons.
We are still in the Church Age until the return of Christ.
Unless you are a Mormon, no other Gospel has been given and no other time dispensation has occurred.
Paul taught how the Gifts are used and his teaching never stated the Holy Ghost will stop giving then at some time.
I suppose if someone can Interpet what God does in their own personal beilief,then this as well vindicated Calvinism.
How the individual interprets God's Word has nothing to do with the truth of God's Word.
If we would have followed John MacArthur in the 1980s we would have run around stating the Blood of Christ has no bearing on salvation.
God's Word does not change according to opinions of men.
It is illogical to believe that Paul's writing in Ephesians, on the gifts of ministry would be valid then denounce the gifts of the Spirit.
All the gifts are from God The Father,The Holy Spirit,and Christ Jesus who are one.
Man cannot seperate what God has done between salvation, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

John: 14. 12. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15. If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

This should answer the notion the gifts died with the original Apostles:

Acts: 8. 12. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16. (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17. Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19. Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

The key words here are power and miracles, even a Sorcerer wanted to buy what cannot be sold,the Power from the Holy Spirit is given by grace through faith in salvation.
It would be ridiculous to think the people who Peter and John Baptised in the Holy Ghost ,would not continue to do the same.

now faith said:

We as Christians are all Apostles of Jesus Christ.
God is no respecter of Persons.

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Ummm.....no. At least not in the sense of Christ's designated Apostles (authorities of the Church).

I can see that a lot of views have been expressed in this thread both for and against Mr MacArthur's views about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues.

A careful reading of the Gospels and Acts convinces me that signs, wonders, and miracles were essential for winning the pagan world to Christ, and they are essential also for winning our neo-pagan world for Christ.

I am also convinced that signs. wonders, and miracles are present today for those who believe that they are an essential part of the preaching of the gospel. I have seen people being healed, and I can testify to a number of people being genuinely healed as the result of my ministry to them.

Results that have involved me are:
* Healing of Arthritis in the knee, attested by the woman's doctor;
* Acute back pain immediately healed with pain instantly disappearing;
* Medical condition causing a woman not to be able to have children totally healed and the woman conceived the very night after ministry and subsequently gave birth to a healthy baby. This condition was diagnosed as incurable by the doctor.
* Recurring kidney infection occurring
every two weeks, halted and not
occurring again for at least two months
(when received feedback).
* Chronic back problem over many years healed after ministry and the woman reported having the first full night's sleep without pain.
* A chronic weeping tear duct dried up
after ministry.
* A gym related leg injury requiring the person walking on two crutches with a prognosis of having to use the crutches for at least the indefinite period. A week after being prayed for, she appear at the gym with only one crutch, acknowledging that my "blessing" was significant in her improvement.

These were the ones I received feedback about.

Concerning tongues, I have had two occurrences where tongues have been spoken understood by another person. The first was my friend speaking tongues in a prayer meeting and a man from Ghana getting excited that my friend was speaking encouraging words from God in his village dialect. There was no way my friend could have been able to speak in that dialect unless the Holy Spirit spoke through him. The second was when I was speaking in tongues in a meeting, and a Maori lady told me that God spoke to her and encouraged her through what I was saying in the Maori language. I had not learned the language at that stage.

There was no way that those tongues were satanic in any form. They proved the genuineness of tongues to me without doubt.

The way to counter the teaching of Mr MacArthur and others like him who deny that the supernatural gifts belong only to the original Apostles is to demonstrate the power of the Holy Spirit to heal, cast out demons, and speak in tongues understood by people who know that God is actively encouraging and pointing them to Christ through the utterance.

When a person is influenced by a powerful lying spirit, apologetics and intellectual debate is not sufficient to counter it. It needs the actual demonstration of God's power through signs, wonders and miracles to discredit the false teaching that the supernatural gifts are not for today.

John Wesley had 250 attested, genuine healings during his ministry. Even his horse got healed of lameness at one point. Smith Wigglesworth, in the early 20th Century had healings attested by medical experts, and many of these were reported in daily newspapers. I had a friend who was Wigglesworth's pianist, who witnessed many of these healings. I have seen A A Allen's ministry of healing on Youtube where people on their deathbeds have got up and walked around.

What Mr MacArthur is saying is that all these people, including me, are false, liars, and inspired by the devil to mislead the people of God. But, the actual demonstration of the miraculous in what I have observed in my ministry, and what I have had reported to me by good people who were there when miracles happened, and what can be seen anywhere on Youtube, totally discredits his teaching about the gifts of the Spirit. He also accuses the woman in the early 20th Century who needed to preach the gospel in a foreign country who received through the gift of tongues the language of that country and successfully preached the gospel, winning many to Christ, and retained the use of the language for the rest of her life. The fact that she won souls for Christ shows that her tongues was definitely not satanic.