What is the Church's relationship to Israel?

What is the relationship of Ekklesia to Israel?

  • G-d divorced Israel. Ekklesia is now Israel.

  • Israel is ever G-d's Covenant People, but Ekklesia is the New Israel.

  • Ekklesia is grafted onto Israel, becoming Israel as well.

  • Israel is ever Israel. Ekklesia is the People of God, not Israel.

  • Same as above, but Jews within Ekklesia are also still Israel

  • Other (please explain)


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Simonline

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What is EKKLESIA?

Those who have been called out of the world to become a part of the Body of Messiah/Christ. It is the Greek word from which we get the English word Ecclesia (Body of believers or Church) and Ecclesiastical (relating to the Body of believers or Church).

Simonline.
 
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Simonline

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Jesus is the true Israel and all who are baptised into him are Israel or the Church.

No. Jesus is not the true Israel at all. That is a Christian urban myth born of manipulating the Scriptures to suit their own theological presuppositions. Jesus as the Jewish Messiah is a part of Israel but Israel is bigger than the Jewish Messiah.

Gentile believers as wild (i.e. uncultivated) olive breanches have been grafted into the cultivated (i.e. Jewish) olive tree and remain within the one and only ligitimate (i.e. cultivated (Jewish)) olive tree because of their humble faith otherwise they will perish the same way as those cultivated branches that refuse to stand by faith in the Jewish God and His Incarnation as the Messiah. (Rom.11:11-24 cf. Eph.2:11-22).

God will never even acknowledge let alone sanction a wild (i.e. pagan Gentile Christian) olive tree existing independently of His cultivated (i.e.Jewish) olive tree since that would be a total repudiation of the reconciliatory nature of His gospel. God made promises to Abraham and swore on oath to Abraham to uphold those promises for ever. The Mosaic covenant has not superceded the Abrahamic covenant and the New Covenant has not superceded the Abrahamic covenant either (but it has superceded the Mosaic Covenant). In fact God is fulfilling His promises to Abraham through the New Covenant but the New Covenant has only partially been fulfilled. There are aspects of the New Covenant that have yet to be fulfilled (such as the promise of the land of Israel as an everlasting inheritance for Abraham, Isaac Jacob and the children of Israel and that all Israel (i.e the physical descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) will eventually be saved).

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Gxg (G²)

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No. Jesus is not the true Israel at all. That is a Christian urban myth born of manipulating the Scriptures to suit their own theological presuppositions. Jesus as the Jewish Messiah is a part of Israel but Israel is bigger than the Jewish Messiah.

Gentile believers as wild (i.e. uncultivated) olive breanches have been grafted into the cultivated (i.e. Jewish) olive tree and remain within the one and only ligitimate (i.e. cultivated (Jewish)) olive tree because of their humble faith otherwise they will perish the same way as those cultivated branches that refuse to stand by faith in the Jewish God and His Incarnation as the Messiah. (Rom.11:11-24 cf. Eph.2:11-22).

God will never even acknowledge let alone sanction a wild (i.e. pagan Gentile Christian) olive tree existing independently of His cultivated (i.e.Jewish) olive tree since that would be a total repudiation of the reconciliatory nature of His gospel. God made promises to Abraham and swore on oath to Abraham to uphold those promises for ever. The Mosaic covenant has not superceded the Abrahamic covenant and the New Covenant has not superceded the Abrahamic covenant either (but it has superceded the Mosaic Covenant). In fact God is fulfilling His promises to Abraham through the New Covenant but the New Covenant has only partially been fulfilled. There are aspects of the New Covenant that have yet to be fulfilled (such as the promise of the land of Israel as an everlasting inheritance for Abraham, Isaac Jacob and the children of Israel and that all Israel (i.e the physical descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) will eventually be saved).

Simonline.

So true...
 
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Rev Randy

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Supersessionism, or 'replacement theology,' is a complete and total strawman.

Virtually no series theologian has ever suggested that the church 'replaced' Israel. Rather, the Gentiles were grafted into a remnant of ancient Israel restored by Christ as the pentecost community, and rest of ethnic Israel remains in spritual exile. God fulfilled his promise to restore a faithful remnant, and that remnant is the core of the modern church.
Ditto
 
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Rev Randy

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He did make a new covenant, yes, but I hope you don't think that means He will break any old one? They will get that land one day, the remnant, that is clear. It will be the capitol of earth. Just as sure as John 3:16 is to be fulfilled for us. God is true. He cannot lie.

I would not worry about God breaking a covenant. But covenants are two sided. Man can break the covenant.
God made a covenant with Abraham. Read on a bit and we see that those who remain uncircumcised have broken that covenant.
 
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Rawtheran

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The Jews are still God's chosen people though he does love all people. The Jews are absolutely essential for the return of Christ, and for the revival of the current Christian church. God made a covenant long ago with Abraham, and nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Jews have been replaced as the people of God. Plus there are many prophecies pertaining to Israel that have yet to be fulfilled.
 
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Rev Randy

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The Jews are still God's chosen people though he does love all people. The Jews are absolutely essential for the return of Christ, and for the revival of the current Christian church. God made a covenant long ago with Abraham, and nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Jews have been replaced as the people of God. Plus there are many prophecies pertaining to Israel that have yet to be fulfilled.
Please explain the difference between chosen and elect.
 
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Rawtheran

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Please explain the difference between chosen and elect.

Chosen, and elect are the same thing really. The Jews are the "chosen" as in picked by God to be the "elect" or people to represent him on the Earth.
 
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Rev Randy

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Chosen, and elect are the same thing really. The Jews are the "chosen" as in picked by God to be the "elect" or people to represent him on the Earth.
Good definition for the most part.Chosen is from the Hebrew tongue and elect from the Greek.
I think it went beyond Jews. It was the Hebrews of all tribes not just Jude. Now as those Hebrews, their children and children's children have all passed on and no longer represent Him here on earth, are these modern non believing Jews chosen? Seems the Lord gave the land and exiled them from the land a few times. Were they His chosen as they went off whoring after false gods? Or did and do they need to be restored before they can once again be the chosen?
It's my contention that God does not respect one race over another. It's not our blood that makes us His own. It's His Blood.
 
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TheBarrd

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Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

I'm not going to argue with Him.

Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

He can get testy...
 
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duolos

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Supersessionism, or 'replacement theology,' is a complete and total strawman.

Virtually no series theologian has ever suggested that the church 'replaced' Israel. Rather, the Gentiles were grafted into a remnant of ancient Israel restored by Christ as the pentecost community, and rest of ethnic Israel remains in spritual exile. God fulfilled his promise to restore a faithful remnant, and that remnant is the core of the modern church.

Why wasn't this an option on the poll, I mean seriously, this is the Biblical standpoint.
 
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TheBarrd

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Jesus very plainly tells us that He is the Way, He is the Truth, and He is the Life. He says that No man goes to the Father except through Him.
Now, if no one is going to the Father except through Him, then we can pretty much conclude that there will not be anyone going to the Father any other way.
Sorry...no back doors for anyone...no matter what their lineage may have been.
 
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FaithfulPilgrim

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I believe that the Church is part of True Israel, and Israel consists of all faithful people from Genesis to the present day.

Even though the Church has been grafted into True Israel, God still has a plan for the Jewish people and national Israel. One day, the nation of Israel will come to know Christ, so Israel shall one day have a Christian majority.
 
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BABerean2

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and that all Israel (i.e the physical descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) will eventually be saved).

Mat 21:43  "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 

1Pe_2:9  But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;


You are replacing the word "so", which is an adverb of manner (Gk. houto), with the word "then" or "when" in Romans 11:26.
It is not about "when" all Israel will be saved.
It is about "how" all Israel will be saved.


Rom 11:24  For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB; 

G3779
οὕτω
houtō
hoo'-to
Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.
From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.





Rom 11:27  FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." 

The Deliverer came out of Zion and took away the sins of all races of people at Calvary, about 2,000 years ago.
...........................................


This is the New Covenant land promise...

Heb 12:22  But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 

Heb 12:23  to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 

Heb 12:24  to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


. 
 
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Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian theological view
on the current status of the "church" in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism.
Supersessionism is the belief that the Christian Church has replaced the Israelites as God's chosen people and that the Mosaic covenant has been replaced or superseded by the New Covenant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism

Supersessionism is the traditional Christian belief that Christianity is the fulfillment of Biblical Judaism,
and therefore that Jews who deny that Jesus is the Jewish (DIVINE) Messiah fall short of their calling as God's Chosen people. Supersessionism, in its more radical form, maintains that the Jews are no longer considered to be God's Chosen people in any sense.
This understanding is generally termed "replacement theology." The traditional form of supersessionism does not theorize a replacement;
instead it argues that Israel has been superseded only in the sense that the Church has been entrusted
with the fulfillment of the promises of which Jewish Israel is the trustee.


This belief has served not only as the explanation for why believers in Christ should not become Jews,
but is also the reason that Jews are not exempted by the Christian churches, from the call of the Gospel to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin and from the penalties due to sin.

In recent times, the doctrine of supersessionism has been blamed for mistreatment of the Jews in the past.
Some liberal Protestant groups have therefore formally renounced supersessionism,
affirming that Jews and other non-Christians have a valid way to find God within their own faith,
which breaks from historic Protestant teaching.

Dispensationalism affirms that salvation is only through faith in Christ, and that Jews fall short of obtaining the kingdom of the promised Messiah, unless they are converted to Christianity.
However, in their view, a future mass conversion will result in the restoration of the nation Israel prior to the Millennium, apart from the church dispensation.

This anticipation of a future role for the ethnic and geo-political nation of Israel in the plan of God,
apart from the Church, is what is meant by some dispensationalists who style themselves as rejectors of "supersessionism" or "replacement theology",
and thus they are using the terms in a way that is distinctive to their expectation of future events.

http://www.theopedia.com/supersessionism
 
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