Baptist/Anabaptist

crossnote · Jul 26, 2016

Just thought I'd compare notes having posted this in the Baptist community as well.

What is the difference between a Baptist and Anabaptist?
Wouldn't the Reformers see them as the same?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 26, 2016

Would reformers see them all like this ? >

crossnote said:
Religions are man's attempts to reach God or godhood,......

For that matter, who do you consider a "reformer" today ? And is there one somewhere ? ?

I don't know how much the differences can be explained, or if there are very many differences any more except in rare places. (so much has changed).
It used to be that Anabaptists were persecuted, unwelcome, and martyred by most other 'Christian' groups ,
apparently because the Anabaptists believed the Bible simply and literally and did what Jesus said all the time/ lived His life daily as directed by His Word by faith in Jesus.

Albion · Jul 26, 2016

crossnote said:
Just thought I'd compare notes having posted this in the Baptist community as well.

What is the difference between a Baptist and Anabaptist?
Wouldn't the Reformers see them as the same?

It's not my forum, so I probably should not post a lot. But until you get other replies...they didn't develop at the same time and there are substantial differences, although the similarities between them are what's most often noticed.

crossnote · Jul 26, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Would reformers see them all like this ? >

For that matter, who do you consider a "reformer" today ? And is there one somewhere ? ?

I don't know how much the differences can be explained, or if there are very many differences any more except in rare places. (so much has changed).
It used to be that Anabaptists were persecuted, unwelcome, and martyred by most other 'Christian' groups ,
apparently because the Anabaptists believed the Bible simply and literally and did what Jesus said all the time/ lived His life daily as directed by His Word by faith in Jesus.

I only used 'Reformer' in it's common usage. Today someone? Anyone who points us back to Scripture. Who? Good question.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 26, 2016

crossnote said:
I only used 'Reformer' in it's common usage.

Which is what ? (I don't know anyone today who is known as or called a reformer or who would want to be ).
I guess if the meaning is something 'good' that I don't know, but again, I don't know what you mean or what 'common usage' you have heard it to mean is today.

crossnote said:
Anyone who points us back to Scripture. Who? Good question.

There have been precious few in the public eye the last several hundred years.
The ones I've known 'privately' or personally aren't seeking to be in the public eye.(news/media/etc).

crossnote · Jul 26, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Which is what ? (I don't know anyone today who is known as or called a reformer or who would want to be ).
I guess if the meaning is something 'good' that I don't know, but again, I don't know what you mean or what 'common usage' you have heard it to mean is today.

There have been precious few in the public eye the last several hundred years.
The ones I've known 'privately' or personally aren't seeking to be in the public eye.(news/media/etc).

Reformers as in those who held to the 5 Solas and unfortunately to a State/Church relationship.
Anyhow, I didn't want this to be about me, but the differences betwee Baptist and Anabaptist.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 26, 2016

crossnote said:
...
Anyhow, I didn't want this to be about me, but the differences betwee Baptist and Anabaptist.

Let's just drop the 'reformers' part then, at least for the moment. Maybe someone else will have something about them.

As far as I know, the Anabaptist(to start with) weren't accept by "Church" nor by "State" in many cases. They were considered outcasts (like the apostles and disciples of Jesus were considered, and Jesus Himself ), and apparently exiled, banished, or murdered.

I don't know if Baptist groups were treated that way or not.

In modern times, it's quite possible that some (visible) Anabaptist organizations have gone 'ecumenical' (death to a congregation) for whatever reasons, and probably not 'original' type ('true') Anabaptist....
(this is just very generally, from the little I could find out the last ten or twenty years casually)...
like a Waldensian congregation in Lithuania did publicly (appeared 'ecumenical' by choice, on purpose) on international television last year.

That 'ecumenical' movement is widely described online, and is the 'new world order' way of , well.... better not say...

crossnote · Jul 26, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Let's just drop the 'reformers' part then, at least for the moment. Maybe someone else will have something about them.

As far as I know, the Anabaptist(to start with) weren't accept by "Church" nor by "State" in many cases. They were considered outcasts (like the apostles and disciples of Jesus were considered, and Jesus Himself ), and apparently exiled, banished, or murdered.

I don't know if Baptist groups were treated that way or not.

In modern times, it's quite possible that some (visible) Anabaptist organizations have gone 'ecumenical' (death to a congregation) for whatever reasons, and probably not 'original' type ('true') Anabaptist....
(this is just very generally, from the little I could find out the last ten or twenty years casually)...
like a Waldensian congregation in Lithuania did publicly (appeared 'ecumenical' by choice, on purpose) on international television last year.

That 'ecumenical' movement is widely described online, and is the 'new world order' way of , well.... better not say...

When it comes to ecumenicalism I hear ya.

FaithfulPilgrim · Aug 20, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Let's just drop the 'reformers' part then, at least for the moment. Maybe someone else will have something about them.

As far as I know, the Anabaptist(to start with) weren't accept by "Church" nor by "State" in many cases. They were considered outcasts (like the apostles and disciples of Jesus were considered, and Jesus Himself ), and apparently exiled, banished, or murdered.

I don't know if Baptist groups were treated that way or not.

In modern times, it's quite possible that some (visible) Anabaptist organizations have gone 'ecumenical' (death to a congregation) for whatever reasons, and probably not 'original' type ('true') Anabaptist....
(this is just very generally, from the little I could find out the last ten or twenty years casually)...
like a Waldensian congregation in Lithuania did publicly (appeared 'ecumenical' by choice, on purpose) on international television last year.

That 'ecumenical' movement is widely described online, and is the 'new world order' way of , well.... better not say...

I'm Baptist, but I have great respect for the Anabaptist tradition.

I've considered converting on and off, but there is always something that keeps me from doing so.

I'm not a pacifist, but I do believe there is stronger support for that doctrine in the Bible than I'd previously thought.

There are Anabaptist denominations that aren't as big on pacifism, but unfortunately, they seem more liberal on things like the ordination of homosexuals.

I also find myself agreeing with Anabaptists on some things regarding soteriology and disagreeing on things.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 21, 2016

crossnote said:
Reformers as in those who held to the 5 Solas and unfortunately to a State/Church relationship.
Anyhow, I didn't want this to be about me, but the differences betwee Baptist and Anabaptist.

Unofficially, I'd say Anabaptist and Baptist don't get along.
Anabaptists (originally, perhaps officially, definitely unofficially) wouldn't think in terms of 5 Solas* (I don't know if Baptists do or not),
and definitely wouldn't be in a relationship with State nor with other churches(except to be chased out and hated and persecuted and exterminated by them; or in any and every way possible "squashed"/"silenced") ...

from gotquestions:
Question: "What are the five solas?"

Answer: The five solas are five Latin phrases popularized during the Protestant Reformation that emphasized the distinctions between the early Reformers and the Roman Catholic Church. The word sola is the Latin word for “only” and was used in relation to five key teachings that defined the biblical pleas of Protestants. They are:

1. Sola scriptura: “Scripture alone”
2. Sola fide: “faith alone”
3. Sola gratia: “grace alone”
4. Solo Christo: “Christ alone”
5. Soli Deo gloria: “to the glory of God alone”

Each of these solas can be seen both as a corrective to the excesses of the Roman Catholic Church at the start of the Reformation and as a positive biblical declaration.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 3, 2016

The original Anabaptists and any TODAY holding to the HEAD WHICH IS JESUS [abiding in UNION WITH HIM DAILY] would not ordain nor allow to remain in fellowship [with the set apart assembly ekklesia] anyone who claimed to be saved but continue living in sin. The directive from SCRIPTURE is very simple and clear about this.

crossnote · Oct 3, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Unofficially, I'd say Anabaptist and Baptist don't get along.
Anabaptists (originally, perhaps officially, definitely unofficially) wouldn't think in terms of 5 Solas* (I don't know if Baptists do or not),
and definitely wouldn't be in a relationship with State nor with other churches(except to be chased out and hated and persecuted and exterminated by them; or in any and every way possible "squashed"/"silenced") ...

from gotquestions:
Question: "What are the five solas?"

Answer: The five solas are five Latin phrases popularized during the Protestant Reformation that emphasized the distinctions between the early Reformers and the Roman Catholic Church. The word sola is the Latin word for “only” and was used in relation to five key teachings that defined the biblical pleas of Protestants. They are:

1. Sola scriptura: “Scripture alone”
2. Sola fide: “faith alone”
3. Sola gratia: “grace alone”
4. Solo Christo: “Christ alone”
5. Soli Deo gloria: “to the glory of God alone”

Each of these solas can be seen both as a corrective to the excesses of the Roman Catholic Church at the start of the Reformation and as a positive biblical declaration.

What part of the 5 'Solas' wouldn't the anaBaptists hold to?
I know Reformed Baptists do and maybe at one time Free Will Baptists did.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 3, 2016

crossnote said:
What part of the 5 'Solas' wouldn't the anaBaptists hold to?
I know Reformed Baptists do and maybe at one time Free Will Baptists did.

I don't know (spontaneous off the top of my head answer). Will check back/look in an hour or so. (in transit now)....
Can you pm / exchange a few ideas ?

crossnote · Oct 3, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
I don't know (spontaneous off the top of my head answer). Will check back/look in an hour or so. (in transit now)....
Can you pm / exchange a few ideas ?

I don't know the answer myself to that question, so I have no ideas to PM. lol

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 3, 2016

#1: Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and conquer them,.....

WayneinMaine · Oct 11, 2016

crossnote said:
What part of the 5 'Solas' wouldn't the anaBaptists hold to?
I know Reformed Baptists do and maybe at one time Free Will Baptists did.

As an expression of a systematic theology, Anabaptist would not hold to any of the Solas. In principle, defined in their own terms (not Calvin's or Luther's or Augustine's), and modified by other "solas" they would hold to them all.

So much of Protestant (and I include Baptists in this) theology is about soteriology - getting saved, where getting saved means being in a state where you will attain eternal life in heaven as opposed to hell when you die. One might think of an Anabaptist theology as one of "Obedience", where being saved is a redeemed state in which one actually obeys the commands of Jesus, and thus has a place in the Kingdom of God.

There is no place for discipleship, following after Jesus, in the 5 solas, but it is a paramount element of Anabaptism.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 13, 2016

WayneinMaine said:
There is no place for discipleship, following after Jesus, in the 5 solas, but it is a paramount element of Anabaptism.

COOL !

FreeinChrist · Nov 3, 2016

I am living in a Mennonite community that goes from more modern to horse and buggy Mennonites (older order) and found some interesting differences with Baptists. I could be wrong and would like Anabaptist input into this:

1. Pacifism - Anbaptists follow non-resistence and pacifism, 'laying down the sword' and turning the other cheek. Baptists do believe in the military mostly.

2. Rebaptisting - Anabaptists will insist new converts are rebaptised if the baptism was as an infant or a church of questionable doctrine as they see it. Baptists may or may not accept a previous baptism. Both see it as an outward symbol of an inner change. I believe some Anabaptists immerse three time - once each for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. Footwashing - Anabaptists practice footwashing as a symbol of brotherhood and service and extending the hand of friendship. Mennonites view it as an ordinance along with the Holy Kiss - but I do not know much about that

4. Plainness in dress - many old order Anabaptists do not allow jewelry or adornment and dress very conservatively covering up skin. Women will have a head covering. Think Amish. These are Mennonite women:

The men near me wear long sleeves, wear hats when outside and I don't see buttons though I think they have them.
Others dress more modern but conservative.

5. Separation from the world - Believe they should conform to Christ and not the world. Baptists believe this but not like the Anabaptists like Amish or Mennonites. Their church discipline may include shunning. I see an emphasis on holy living, avoiding sin.

6. Oaths - Anabaptist refrain from taking oaths of any kind. Baptists will as in the military.

Anabaptists and Baptists come out of different areas of the world and some different leaders

So Anabaptists - is this right?

crossnote · Nov 3, 2016

WayneinMaine said:
One might think of an Anabaptist theology as one of "Obedience", where being saved is a redeemed state in which one actually obeys the commands of Jesus, and thus has a place in the Kingdom of God.

They have a place in the Kingdom of God while they maintain obedience to the commands of Jesus? Got it...I think.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 3, 2016

excerpt: "Four centuries later, I grew up inwardly aware, always conscious of our glorious “Anabaptist heritage”…
and wondering, already as a child, how they could accomplish so much and we so little.
We heard our parents tell about the Anabaptists on long winter evenings. We learned about them in school, and we heard about them in the unpainted, wooden interior of our meetinghouse where we met to sing and pray.
But already as a child I began to suspect the Anabaptists, like Samson, knew something—some secret—that we did not." "

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