An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

mmksparbud said:

On Monday-----Yah---OK. That's biblical--those are very pretty. Though, the Mormons have much more magnificent ones.

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You really haven't seen a decent baptismal font, I guess. We don't use golden (or any other) calves to hold up the font. But it depends on the size and structure of the Church building. Most cathedrals have grand fonts. Most parishes have small, portable ones.

mmksparbud said:

On Monday-----Yah---OK. That's biblical--those are very pretty. Though, the Mormons have much more magnificent ones.

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Nope, not Monday. The eighth day is Sunday, the day God created everything.

I grew up with just a glorified bath tub!---Big enough for 2 of 3 people to stand in and get dunked--that's it---I've even seen what amounts to an above ground pool.
First time I saw those Mormon ones I just about fell off my chair. I
Now--please give me the verse that says God created anything---much less, everything, on the 8th day.

So what is the end all of this? I have a few friends that are devoted SDA and have been tiptoeing around theology with me and my wife. Are they christian? are they saved?


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The end of all this is that Sunday keepers will probably remain such--and us Sabbath day keepers will probably remain such. Are we saved for sticking to the word of God?----Are they saved for not but instead commemorating His resurrection?---We sre definitely Christian-though there are weird SDA's as there are weird anything else who may espouse a couple non Christian ideas. Those afflict every church. We believe we are saved, so does every other denomination---you'll just have to research the bible and everybody and figure it out for yourself--in the end, that is what we all do is it not??

SAAN said:

But the other doctrines of being Vegan, no dancing, no jewelry, no makeup....etc are just ridiculous.

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It's funny to me. These "ridiculous" doctrines are ones I still understand best and somewhat agree with, even as a former SDA. I agree with them as good principles for living not as laws to be enforced. Mainstream Adventists treat them this way too, although it seems in every congregation there is the one member who thinks they are laws. There are solid, practical reasons for each of these teachings.

Veganism is for health, to treat your body as a temple of the Holy Spirit. It is a reason why SDA's are the longest living group in the US, one of the " blue zone" groups. It is also a means of alleviating suffering. If you can teach and encourage someone suffering from obesity, high blood pressure, arthritis, or type II diabetes to adopt a whole food, vegan diet that appeals to American tastes you might relieve them of a dependence on medication and save their life. They might be more likely to listen to you on spiritual things when their physical selves feel good. How many times did Jesus first heal a person's body to reach their soul in the gospel? This is the same diet Orthodox Christians follow when fasting, which is almost 50% of the year!

On dancing, how much of the current dance music elevates you spiritually? Do you feel close to God in a dance club or are you stirring up lusts best left alone? Ditto on worldly music and movies. Once those things go into your mind you can't unlisten or unsee them. That beat and lyrics will pop into your mind when you least want them to.

Jewelry is not a good use of the means God gives us overall. People spend money that could be put toward owning a home, getting out of debt and building a new life, the poor, or furthering God's kingdom on things like engagement rings. And nowadays the same can be said for spending on tattoos.

No makeup is about staying modest, humble, pure of heart, letting your inner beauty shine through. It is about bringing the focus on Jesus not yourself. Plus, Adventist aren't no makeup but rather not showy makeup. Be happy with what God gave you and don't draw on a new face. And wouldn't you know it, every day another of those cosmetic ingredients gets listed as carcinogenic.

I don't necessarily do all these things but I understand them and agree with them.

"The Third Commandment.

78] Thou shalt sanctify the holy day. [Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.]

Wow the third commandment!!!!!

My Bible says the Sabbath commandment is the fourth.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not;

Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

If God did not change the 4th to the 3rd then man must have changed Gods Law.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Titus 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Original Happy Camper said:

"The Third Commandment.

78] Thou shalt sanctify the holy day. [Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.]

Wow the third commandment!!!!!

My Bible says the Sabbath commandment is the fourth.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not;

Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

If God did not change the 4th to the 3rd then man must have changed Gods Law.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Titus 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Um, if the commandments are actually numbered in the text of your bible that is from the publishing company. There is no actual 1, 2, 3 in the original text. No change from 3 to 4. Just different groups of people interpreting the same text as being divided differently.

BelleC said:

Um, if the commandments are actually numbered in the text of your bible that is from the publishing company. There is no actual 1, 2, 3 in the original text. No change from 3 to 4. Just different groups of people interpreting the same text as being divided differently.

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Do not fool yourself. You list yourself as a christian yet you are not informed on the change of the Ten Commandments as given by God. Man has removed the third commandant "Idols" and split the tenth into two separate covetous commandments.

Which are the Commandments of God?
The Catholic Ten Commandments are:
Douay Bible (Catholic Bible)
1. I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep holy the Lord‘s Day.
4. Honor thy father and thy mother.
5. Thou shall not kill.
6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7. Thou shalt not steal.
8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

The Roman Catholic Ten Commandments tell us what we should and should not do. They're our Instruction Manual For A Happy Life - Here And Now.

The 10 Commandments List, Short Form
King James Bible

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

So do you see a change?

Original Happy Camper,
Here is the actual bible text.
From KJV:
Exodus 20King James Version (KJV)
20 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

13 Thou shalt not kill.

14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

15 Thou shalt not steal.

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

From Douay-Rheims:
Exodus 20Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
20 And the Lord spoke all these words:

2 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me:

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain.

8 Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works.

10 But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.

13 Thou shalt not kill.

14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

15 Thou shalt not steal.

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house: neither shalt thou desire his wife, nor his servant, nor his handmaid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is his.


Still don't see them neatly broken up with numbers. That numbering is an interpretation. The Catholic listing you posted see idols as included in the "strange gods." Also, yes I am still a Christian although I am no longer an Adventist. It is by the grace of God. I simply can no longer agree with the "28 Fundamental Beliefs" many of which, I believe, are additions.

From Acts 15 (KJV)
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment.

Then:
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Peace be with and have a happy sabbath!

Still don't see them neatly broken up with numbers. That numbering is an interpretation. The Catholic listing you posted see idols as included in the "strange gods." Also, yes I am still a Christian although I am no longer an Adventist. It is by the grace of God. I simply can no longer agree with the "28 Fundamental Beliefs" many of which, I believe, are additions.

Peace be with and have a happy sabbath![/QUOTE]


You appear to be very legalistic in your understanding of the ten commandments numbering. History is not on your side.
Have you fulfilled this prophecy?
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

I have never had an unhappy Sabbath with the Lord.

[QUOTE="Original Happy Camper, post: 69937250, member:
You appear to be very legalistic in your understanding of the ten commandments numbering. History is not on your side.
Have you fulfilled this prophecy?
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

I have never had an unhappy Sabbath with the Lord.[/QUOTE]

How is not getting stuck on man made numberings legalistic? I don't think either numbering is wrong.

BTW, that quote of yours is a double edged sword. Careful not to cut yourself with it! I'm not the one following a new prophet and ignoring the biblical understanding of millennia of devout Christians born pre-1844.

BelleC said:

Um, if the commandments are actually numbered in the text of your bible that is from the publishing company. There is no actual 1, 2, 3 in the original text. No change from 3 to 4. Just different groups of people interpreting the same text as being divided differently.

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the bible originally was not written in chapters and verses and without much punctuation---the commandments were not called the 10 commandments by the Jews but by The 10 Sayings, 10 statements, 10 declarations and sre considered categories. Every Jewish site has them listed as this

1. Belief in G-d
This category is derived from the declaration in Ex. 20:2 beginning, "I am the L-rd, your G-d..."
2. Prohibition of Improper Worship
This category is derived from Ex. 20:3-6, beginning, "You shall not have other gods..." It encompasses within it the prohibition against the worship of other gods as well as the prohibition of improper forms of worship of the one true G-d, such as worshiping G-d through an idol.
3. Prohibition of Oaths
This category is derived from Ex. 20:7, beginning, "You shall not take the name of the L-rd your G-d in vain..." This includes prohibitions against perjury, breaking or delaying the performance of vows or promises, and speaking G-d's name or swearing unnecessarily.
4. Observance of Sacred Times
This category is derived from Ex. 20:8-11, beginning, "Remember the Sabbath day..." It encompasses all mitzvot related to Shabbat, holidays, or other sacred time.
5. Respect for Parents and Teachers
This category is derived from Ex. 20:12, beginning, "Honor your father and mother..."
6. Prohibition of Physically Harming a Person
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not murder."
7. Prohibition of Sexual Immorality
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not commit adultery."
8. Prohibition of Theft
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not steal." It includes within it both outright robbery as well as various forms of theft by deception and unethical business practices. It also includes kidnapping, which is essentially "stealing" a person.
9. Prohibition of Harming a Person through Speech
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." It includes all forms of lashon ha-ra (sins relating to speech).
10. Prohibition of Coveting
This category is derived from Ex. 20:14,
10. Prohibition of Coveting
This category is derived from Ex. 20:14, beginning, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..."

BelleC said:

[QUOTE="Original Happy Camper, post: 69937250, member:
You appear to be very legalistic in your understanding of the ten commandments numbering. History is not on your side.
Have you fulfilled this prophecy?
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

I have never had an unhappy Sabbath with the Lord.

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How is not getting stuck on man made numberings legalistic? I don't think either numbering is wrong.

BTW, that quote of yours is a double edged sword. Careful not to cut yourself with it! I'm not the one following a new prophet and ignoring the biblical understanding of millennia of devout Christians born pre-1844.[/QUOTE]

Did Jesus not teach new Biblical understanding, what about all the devout Jews born before 30 AD? The Jews of Jesus ministry would have done well to follow what they considered a new Prophet. (NO I AM NOT COMPARING EGW TO JESUS ONLY THE TERM PROPHET)

Original Happy Camper said:

Do not fool yourself. You list yourself as a christian yet you are not informed on the change of the Ten Commandments as given by God. Man has removed the third commandant "Idols" and split the tenth into two separate covetous commandments.

Which are the Commandments of God?
The Catholic Ten Commandments are:
Douay Bible (Catholic Bible)
1. I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep holy the Lord‘s Day.
4. Honor thy father and thy mother.
5. Thou shall not kill.
6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7. Thou shalt not steal.
8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

The Roman Catholic Ten Commandments tell us what we should and should not do. They're our Instruction Manual For A Happy Life - Here And Now.

The 10 Commandments List, Short Form
King James Bible

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

So do you see a change?

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No one has the right to change anything written in the bible. It stands as written. Of course there are people who would rather not have a commandment that says not have to idols when your main form of worship is praying to idols!! So the thing to do is change what God says and state things in a way that allows man to circumvent the clear word of God. God isn't blind. You either follow the commands of God or man.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

mmksparbud said:

No one has the right to change anything written in the bible. It stands as written. Of course there are people who would rather not have a commandment that says not have to idols when your main form of worship is praying to idols!! So the thing to do is change what God says and state things in a way that allows man to circumvent the clear word of God. God isn't blind. You either follow the commands of God or man.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

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Take a deep breath.

First, I don't worship idols or bow down images. Second, both lists you showed are not in the actual scripture. I have copied and pasted the actual verses. You can read them for yourself. Read the bible. Not your quarterlies to predigest it for you.

BelleC said:

Take a deep breath.

First, I don't worship idols or bow down images. Second, both lists you showed are not in the actual scripture. I have copied and pasted the actual verses. You can read them for yourself. Read the bible. Not your quarterlies to predigest it for you.

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I do deep breathing on a regular basis and practice diaphragmatic breathing since I was 13.
I have not read a quarterly in quite some time. I am very disabled and have not even gone to church in several years and do not keep up with the latest of anything, such a videos and such. I only quoted one list which I plainly stated is a Jewish list as they have them listed on several Jewish sites. I know what the actual scriptures say. In Hebrew, Aramaic, KJV and several other versions. I did not accuse you of idol worship, I clearly stated there are people who would rather not list that commandment against idol worship. And none of them say they worship idols.

mmksparbud said:

I do deep breathing on a regular basis and practice diaphragmatic breathing since I was 13.
I have not read a quarterly in quite some time. I am very disabled and have not even gone to church in several years and do not keep up with the latest of anything, such a videos and such. I only quoted one list which I plainly stated is a Jewish list as they have them listed on several Jewish sites. I know what the actual scriptures say. In Hebrew, Aramaic, KJV and several other versions. I did not accuse you of idol worship, I clearly stated there are people who would rather not list that commandment against idol worship. And none of them say they worship idols.

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Terribly sorry! I misinterpreted the exclamation points in your post! Plus, I thought I was replying to another poster who appears quick to consider non-Adventists to also be non-Christians.

Actually, I thought your post of the Jewish list was helpful in that it demonstrates that the scriptures do not explicitly enumerate a specific division of the Ten Commandments. As you stated, the original text lacked even punctuation.

Original Happy Camper said:

Did Jesus not teach new Biblical understanding, what about all the devout Jews born before 30 AD? The Jews of Jesus ministry would have done well to follow what they considered a new Prophet. (NO I AM NOT COMPARING EGW TO JESUS ONLY THE TERM PROPHET)

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Jesus wasn't a prophet. He's God. He proved that through His resurrection.

Second, He didn't teach a new understanding. The same things He taught can be found in the OT.


Mark 12:29-31
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Deuteronomy 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:17-18
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

He fulfilled all the Law, showed how God had always intended it to be kept, and paid the penalty that we owe for not keeping the law perfectly. Having fulfilled the old covenant He made a new one with all that would accept Him as their Lord and Savior that reconciles us to our all holy, perfect God. That new one is the Gospel, the Good News.

Yes--we know that---however--

Mat_14:5 And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.
Mat_21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
Mat_11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Mat_13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
Luk_7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.
Luk_24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Joh_4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
Joh_9:17 They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.