simple question about scripture, by way of hello

me34571

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If the three wise men truly were wise, why did they not foresee that a despot such as Herod would seek the death of Jesus?

I'm sure this question has been answered many times but have not been able to google up an answer, so all assistance appreciated.

Okay, I have some questions about the Gospel of St. Matthew, verses 18 and 19, as well.

1) What were the ages of Joseph and Mary at the time of the conception?

2) When Mary was found to be "pregnant by the Holy Ghost," who found her thus, and how? Who was informed of this, and to what extent?

3) How does Joseph "being a just man" square with him contemplating a coverup?

4) Why is there not even a mention of Mary's experience of having the future Son of God within her womb? Presuming that she knew what unborn child she carried.

Thank you to everyone who replies.
 
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GoodGRACEshus

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Hello :)

Couch your google searches with, "what does the Bible say about......." Copy and save these words for your next question to cut down on tedious entries. I did one for you :)
My result was heaps of entries, none of which included Joseph:

Question: "How old was Mary when Jesus was born?"

Answer: While the Bible does not specifically state how old Mary was when Jesus was born, most Christian historians speculate that she was around 15—16 years of age at the time of Jesus’ birth. According to Jewish customs at the time, a young woman might become betrothed to a young man as early as 12 years of age, though the consummation of their marriage through ceremony and physical intimacy would not happen until they were legally married, many months or even years later.

That's about as close as you can get without a Tardis.

Have fun ^_^
 
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Krissy Cakes

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Greg J.

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If the three wise men truly were wise, why did they not foresee that a despot such as Herod would seek the death of Jesus?
Why do you think they didn't know about Herod? They were literally "magi," which is a word with several possible meanings. How the word is used in Matthew 2 is the best source of its definition. It is safe to say that they were humble (to hear from God and to travel a long way to worship Jesus). Wisdom is something that usually results from genuine, long-term humility. However, they came to worship Jesus, not tell Mary and Joseph where they should be living. When they had gone, God told Mary about Herod and where she should be living.
1) What were the ages of Joseph and Mary at the time of the conception?
Since God hasn't told me and it isn't in Scripture, I don't know.
2) When Mary was found to be "pregnant by the Holy Ghost," who found her thus, and how? Who was informed of this, and to what extent?
Scripture does not say explicitly. It is implied that Joseph was the one that discovered Mary was pregnant. Beyond that not many people knew, otherwise Joseph wouldn't have had the option he was contemplating. Elizabeth knew ahead of time that Mary would give birth to "my Lord." (Luke 1:43)
3) How does Joseph "being a just man" square with him contemplating a coverup?
David was considered righteous by God (Jeremiah 23:5) even though he committed some terrible sins. Joseph could have been considered a righteous man by God without being perfect. He probably was extremely distressed at finding Mary pregnant, for the Law prescribed stoning to death for Mary. However, following the letter of the Law is not what God wanted from his people (Habakkuk 2:4). Hosea 6:6 is referred to in a few places in Scripture (For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, ...).

He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. (Matthew 12:3-7, 1984 NIV)
4) Why is there not even a mention of Mary's experience of having the future Son of God within her womb? Presuming that she knew what unborn child she carried.
Since God hasn't told me and it isn't in Scripture, I don't know. Mary knew she would give birth to one that would be called God's Son, and with a tiny bit of deduction, that he would be the prophesied Messiah. God intentionally left out a lot of information about Jesus prior to his ministry.

Browsing several Bible Commentaries would be a better source of information than me. I'm sure there are whole books written about these passages, as well.
 
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Job8

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If the three wise men truly were wise, why did they not foresee that a despot such as Herod would seek the death of Jesus?
That was none of their business. In fact, they could not have anticipated this. Their wisdom lay in (1) reading the Torah, (2) believing the Torah, (3) taking the Star of the Messiah seriously, (4) deciding to visit the newborn King and worship Him with gifts, and (4) making a long and arduous journey simply for that purpose.
How does Joseph "being a just man" square with him contemplating a coverup?
Calling that a coverup is an unjust and false accusation. Evidently you forgot to read what the angel told Joseph and why Joseph responded righteously.
 
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ewq1938

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If the three wise men truly were wise, why did they not foresee that a despot such as Herod would seek the death of Jesus?

They weren't mind readers.




Okay, I have some questions about the Gospel of St. Matthew, verses 18 and 19, as well.

1) What were the ages of Joseph and Mary at the time of the conception?

It isn't written.



2) When Mary was found to be "pregnant by the Holy Ghost," who found her thus, and how? Who was informed of this, and to what extent?

I think the gospels cover all of that well enough.



3) How does Joseph "being a just man" square with him contemplating a coverup?

There was nothing wrong in what he did in fact it was quite noble of him.



4) Why is there not even a mention of Mary's experience of having the future Son of God within her womb? Presuming that she knew what unborn child she carried.

She knew he was the Messiah.
 
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Radagast

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If the three wise men truly were wise, why did they not foresee that a despot such as Herod would seek the death of Jesus?

The Bible calls them "magi." A better translation might be "astrologers." The Bible does not say they were "truly wise."

1) What were the ages of Joseph and Mary at the time of the conception?

No one knows for certain. There is a theory that Joseph was old (perhaps a widower), which would explain why he doesn't seem to be around when Jesus is crucified.

2) When Mary was found to be "pregnant by the Holy Ghost," who found her thus, and how? Who was informed of this, and to what extent?

All we are told is that Mary and Joseph knew, but presumably the pregnancy was visible.

3) How does Joseph "being a just man" square with him contemplating a coverup?

What "coverup"? He was contemplating not going through with the marriage, but he chose not to take legal action. He obviously did not want Mary to be stoned to death, for example.

4) Why is there not even a mention of Mary's experience of having the future Son of God within her womb? Presuming that she knew what unborn child she carried.

It's called the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55):

And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant.
For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;
for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
And his mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty.
He has helped his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy,
as he spoke to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his offspring forever.”
 
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miamited

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Hi me,

Welcome. I doubt that you'll find the answers to the questions you seek. The thing about ancient historical accounts is that you only get what has been passed down in the actual evidence. Questions regarding issues that have not been preserved in the evidence are not going to be answered with any assurance that they are the truth, but one can always ask.

You wrote:
If the three wise men truly were wise, why did they not foresee that a despot such as Herod would seek the death of Jesus?

Since they were strangers to the land of Israel, there really isn't any reason that they would have known the nature of Herod. We know it today because we have the Scriptures to tell us the things that he did. They didn't have that resource. I'm not really sure that the things that Herod did prior to the time of Jesus would have been considered particularly heinous of rulers of that day. There are many accounts of questionable actions by the various kings and rulers that lived 2,000 years ago. Communication wasn't as instantaneous as it is today.

Finally, being wise doesn't mean the same as being omniscient. However, one needs to also consider that there were prophecies written about Rachel weeping for her children. That prophecy could only come to fruition if Herod did what Herod did. That prophecy could only come true if Herod found out about Jesus' birth. Perhaps those wise men were wiser than you're giving them credit for.

What were the ages of Joseph and Mary at the time of the conception?

Don't know and don't really see any reason that it might matter in any way. They were whatever age they were.

You asked:
When Mary was found to be "pregnant by the Holy Ghost," who found her thus, and how? Who was informed of this, and to what extent?

By the evidence of the Scriptures we know that the angel knew and I imagine he knew by way of God who sent him to visit Mary. Based on Mary's response, I'd imagine that she didn't even know that she was pregnant at the time she was told. We know that Joseph knew because he considered divorce because of that very issue. We know that a time came when Elizabeth knew. Beyond that it would all be a guess as to when and how others came to know that Mary was pregnant. I would also imagine that under the circumstances of the nature of her pregnancy that it wasn't something that was widely known. Mary would have been widely shunned by people if they knew and there isn't any evidence that she was. It's likely why she went to another town for awhile. However, all of that is merely guesswork and supposition. As initially mentioned at the top of this post, we only have the evidence that we have and any answers for questions outside of that evidence is purely guesswork.

How does Joseph "being a just man" square with him contemplating a coverup?

We all run possible actions and outcomes through our heads when faced with tough situations. It's natural and I can't imagine that such a practice of considering different options and actions to cause one to be considered 'unjust'. Now, to follow through on one particular action or course that is an unjust course, would be unjust. However, humanly speaking, Joseph would still have been a just man if he had sent her away. That's why God sent the angel to Joseph. To give him insight and understanding of what was happening.

Why is there not even a mention of Mary's experience of having the future Son of God within her womb? Presuming that she knew what unborn child she carried.

You mean like one of the gospel writers writing that there was a day that Mary said, "Ooooh, I felt the baby kick."? She had been told 'what unborn child she carried'. Her knowing that she hadn't had any sexual relations, - after all Mary knew the things she had done whether she told anyone else or not, she knew the truth of her own actions, - would certainly indicate to me that she knew that there was something special about her child even without the knowledge given her by the angel. Let's be real here for a moment. A woman who knows that she's never had sexual relations comes up pregnant? It's not like people didn't know what caused pregnancies in those days.

So, all questions for a mind to ask, but expecting any sure truthful answer to such thoughts should be understood by anyone as highly unlikely. We can only answer the questions for which we have some evidence with which to know the answers. All we can know is that Mary and Joseph were real actual people who lived in Israel in that day and they were, therefore, some age. We don't have a clue, based on all available evidence, what that age was. We don't have a clue, beyond the people we are told who knew that Mary was pregnant, who knew that Mary was pregnant or had any idea the circumstances under which she became pregnant. We know that Joseph was considered to be a just man because the Scriptures tell us that he was. Personally, that's ample evidence for me that Joseph was a just man whether you or I would agree or not. Ultimately, the Scriptures tell us that he did do the just thing. There's no further mention of the day to day activities of Mary throughout her pregnancy and so all we know is what we've been told.

We are cautioned against going beyond what the Scriptures tell us and I honestly can't find any reason why we need to know any of these answers. In what way might it matter if Mary was 15 or 30? In what way might it matter if we were told of every minute of Mary's life from the time she was told that she was with child until the birth?

God bless you and welcome again,
In Christ, Ted
 
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Hawkiz

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If the three wise men truly were wise, why did they not foresee that a despot such as Herod would seek the death of Jesus?

I'm sure this question has been answered many times but have not been able to google up an answer, so all assistance appreciated.

Okay, I have some questions about the Gospel of St. Matthew, verses 18 and 19, as well.

1) What were the ages of Joseph and Mary at the time of the conception?

2) When Mary was found to be "pregnant by the Holy Ghost," who found her thus, and how? Who was informed of this, and to what extent?

3) How does Joseph "being a just man" square with him contemplating a coverup?

4) Why is there not even a mention of Mary's experience of having the future Son of God within her womb? Presuming that she knew what unborn child she carried.

Thank you to everyone who replies.

Well, for starters, we don't actually know that there were 3 wise men...they brought 3 gifts, which leads us to conclude that there were 3 gift bearers, but Matthews account does not number the men. In theory, there could have been more or even less. But 3 is often the number of perfection in Scripture, so to have 3 wise men traveling to worship the Living God makes logistical sense.
And, we can see that they were wise enough to not return and report to Herod, so while it might not have been their place to warn Mary and Joseph of Herod's evil, they 'knew' enough to not rat out the location of the Christ to Herod...

As others have already mentioned, we don't know the ages of Mary and Joseph for certain. Tradition tells us that Mary was likely young, in her early teens, and that Joseph was a widower, and it is presumed much older; this would be the traditional belief of the churches we now refer to as Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, and even both of these churches would concede that while this is the belief, it is not something that can be known for certain. That belief squares nicely with the concept that Mary and Joseph had no children together, explains why Joseph is absent from Scripture after Jesus is around 12, etc.

Your questions 2-4 have been well answered by others.

Welcome and Peace in Christ

Hawkiz
 
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