So God created some people knowing beforehand that they would go to Hell..

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frettr00

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Ok here's a question I'd like a good answer to because it's bothering me. Why did God decide to create certain people if he knew they would end up in Hell? In the Bible when talking about Judas it says "It would be better for him if he had not been born" If it would have been better for someone to have not been born, rather than end up in Hell, then why create them to begin with knowing they would end up there. This seems like an act of evil committed by God. Please help me out here, thanks.
 

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frettr00

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God gave us free will which means that some would choose to reject him.

Right, but God knew who would reject him before he even created them. Why create if you know this person is going to end up in Hell?
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Right, but God knew who would reject him before he even created them. Why create if you know this person is going to end up in Hell?
Here are my thoughts on it:

1) Hell is the damned's own making, and God still loves them (not what they have done) even though they don't love God.

2) Like gold purified by fire, the saints are perfected by enduring persecution by the evil ones.

3) God's wisdom is infinitely above ours. So we can't expect to fully understand him. God isn't a bigger version of us.
 
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paul becke

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Right, but God knew who would reject him before he even created them. Why create if you know this person is going to end up in Hell?

Perhaps, as during his Incarnation Jesus chose not to know certain things*, God chose not to foresee who would choose Hell, since 'free will' was absolutely pivotal. If it had not been so, then He would seemingly have been more irresponsible than a parent who failed to tell a young child to look both ways when crossing the road - in view of his having anticipated a certain reality, rather than a possible accident due to carelessness when crossing roads.

In any case, I believe there is a YouTube video-clip of William Craig, in which he explains it.

*For example, the date of the Parousia.
 
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pdudgeon

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Ok here's a question I'd like a good answer to because it's bothering me. Why did God decide to create certain people if he knew they would end up in Hell? In the Bible when talking about Judas it says "It would be better for him if he had not been born" If it would have been better for someone to have not been born, rather than end up in Hell, then why create them to begin with knowing they would end up there. This seems like an act of evil committed by God. Please help me out here, thanks.

because people have a choice. Satan had that same choice, but his fall was the greater because he knew God face to face and still rejected him. So he was kicked out of heaven but still allowed access to God even in his fallen state. Now that's grace!
So satan roamed the earth, seducing and corrupting everything in his path, refusing God right and left.

Hell was created for satan and for the fallen angels that followed him as their ultimate end.
By choosing to reject God (just as satan and his fallen angels did) man condems himself to the same end that satan chose.
 
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Davidnic

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I subscribe to the theology of Middle Knowledge. In a nutshell that is God creates us and sees where we may sin. He gives us free will and the grace to not sin. He gives us, if we accept, the power to turn from the dark paths we would choose. So we are given sufficient Grace to choose otherwise. He knows what we will do not because He makes us do it or creates us to do it, but because He can see all of time and all that will happen. But that it happens is our free will.

God knows all that may happen in addition to what will, this is loosely called counterfactual or contingent truths. And He gives us the grace, free will and power to choose Him.

A loose annalogy if you teach your child to run a race. You know that the obstacles in the path may be difficult. You can see that one in particular will trip the child up. So you teach them how to avoid it. How to handle it. If you could, you would even give them the supernatural help to get past it. Then you say, you have to run this on your own.
 
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Davidnic

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If God eliminates all the people who will make bad choices then free will is academic not operational. If He would do that He could have just not created and put humans with Him and said, "You are the ones who would have chosen correctly."

Now, I am not saying this is the case (it is speculation) but who knows if those who God sees will fall and then He gives them sufficient Grace to resist...who knows if by a miracle they change what would have happened because of God's Mercy. We do not know that. God does. God knows what they would have chosen and if any amount of His Grace will turn them from a dark path. Choices, to have value and free will to have value must be exercised.

It's not a perfect answer but it is the best I know of.
 
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pdudgeon

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Essentially. But He also Gives them the grace to choose differently. Like handing someone a life jacket that they refuse to use.

reminds me of Navy boot camp. No one graduated unless they could swim.;)
(but it was their responsibility to swim when the occasion required it from then on.)
 
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MikeK

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Essentially. But He also Gives them the grace to choose differently. Like handing someone a life jacket that they refuse to use.

The obvious counter argument however is that a decent person will save the life of even the man who cannot be bothered to wear the life jacket if he has the ability to do so.
 
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MikeK

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It is why analogies of God from a pure human perspective will always be incomplete.

Right. Ocasionally it will really shake my faith. Eventually I remember that it might not really be possible to fully "get it" as a human and that fact doesn't make God false or cruel or wrong.
 
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AvilaSurfer

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I heard years ago that everyone should have an "I don't get it" file. You put everything in that file from why your dad died so early to how to understand the Trinity.
Life's pretty simple when you realize it's not all explainable.
 
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