Can someone tell me about the LCMC?

Korah

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The ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), the most liberal Lutheran body in the U. S., was (is) big enough that two sets of breakaway churches have recently split off without affecting ELCA's status as the largest Lutheran denomination. LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) is still the second-largest (and the second most conservative), "well" ahead of WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) which is third and the most conservative. ELCA was large enough that the two breakaway groups are the 4th largest , LCMC (Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ) and the 5th largest NALC (North American Lutheran Church). The latter formed in 2011 (a little slow in the uptake) after ELCA in 2009 dethroned the Bible, approved gay priests (and now has a gay bishop), and now has a female Presiding Bishop. At least they have bishops, which is more than can be said for LCMC which was apparently too low-church for the tastes of those who must have negotiated with but by-passed the 2001 breakaway association (not a denomination, they say) LCMC, and formed their own slightly different NALC. I talked to a pastor here in northern California who said LCMC also avoids the word "Catholic" in the Athanasian Creed and substitutes "Christian" (as is commonly done among Lutherans who by confession accept the Athanasian Creed). To me the best part about the Athanasian Creed IS the word "Catholic" in it, to remind us good Lutherans that we are not really "Protestant" like everyone types us, but fully a part of the "Universal" Church. (I would be able to accept "Universal" as a weak-kneed substitute for "Catholic" in the Creed. Saying "Christian" seems to imply we don't regard Roman Catholics as Christians.)
That priest is just over an hour from me, so considering doctrinal issues I dislike, I will continue for the present in the ELCA (until LCMC or NALC gets a parish in my neighborhood, like in Sacramento) in ELCA where I read, assist at Communion, sing in the choir, and count collections. I do really like NALC which does have a bishop, though I have minor quibbles. They only have Communion twice a month, say the old-fashioned Lord's Prayer with "trespasses" instead of "sins", and say a different mass than is in the Green Book they nevertheless keep in the pews.

Ironically enough there is a parish in my small home-town of the sixth-largest Lutheran body in the U. S., the Association of Free Lutherans, that was founded back in 1962 before ELCA itself was formed in 1988. I attended it for a while, but saw no future in a parish that had no priest and was led by a layman in his high eighties. I'm too High-Church to be comfortable taking Communion consecrated by a layman who was fiercely proud of not bowing to episcopal or priestly domination.
 
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The ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), the most liberal Lutheran body in the U. S., was (is) big enough that two sets of breakaway churches have recently split off without affecting ELCA's status as the largest Lutheran denomination. LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) is still the second-largest (and the second most conservative), "well" ahead of WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) which is third and the most conservative. ELCA was large enough that the two breakaway groups are the 4th largest , LCMC (Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ) and the 5th largest NALC (North American Lutheran Church). The latter formed in 2011 (a little slow in the uptake) after ELCA in 2009 dethroned the Bible, approved gay priests (and now has a gay bishop), and now has a female Presiding Bishop. At least they have bishops, which is more than can be said for LCMC which was apparently too low-church for the tastes of those who must have negotiated with but by-passed the 2001 breakaway association (not a denomination, they say) LCMC, and formed their own slightly different NALC. I talked to a pastor here in northern California who said LCMC also avoids the word "Catholic" in the Athanasian Creed and substitutes "Christian" (as is commonly done among Lutherans who by confession accept the Athanasian Creed). To me the best part about the Athanasian Creed IS the word "Catholic" in it, to remind us good Lutherans that we are not really "Protestant" like everyone types us, but fully a part of the "Universal" Church. (I would be able to accept "Universal" as a weak-kneed) substitute for "Catholic" in the Creed. Saying "Christian" seems to imply we don't regard Roman Catholics as Christians.)
That priest is just over an hour from me, so considering doctrinal issues I dislike, I will continue for the present in the ELCA (until LCMC or NALC gets a parish in my neighborhood, like in Sacramento) in ELCA where I read, assist at Communion, sing in the choir, and count collections. I do really like NALC which does have a bishop, though I have minor quibbles. They only have Communion twice a month, say the old-fashioned Lord's Prayer with "trespasses" instead of "sins", and say a different mass than is in the Green Book they nevertheless keep in the pews.

Ironically enough there is a parish in my small home-town of the sixth-largest Lutheran body in the U. S., the Association of Free Lutherans, that was founded back in 1962 before ELCA itself was formed in 1988. I attended it for a while, but saw no future in a parish that had no priest and was led by a layman in his high eighties. I'm too High-Church to be comfortable taking Communion consecrated by a layman who was fiercely proud of not bowing to episcopal or priestly domination.

Well the Book of Concord uses "Christian" in the creed so the Lutheran denominations just ran with it. I don't really mind either way.

You wouldn't happen to be from Manteca?

There is a free Lutheran church there and I your near Sacramento?
 
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Korah

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The parish in Manteca has a priest. The unlisted one in Dixon does not. No clergy person ever appeared there during the months I attended.
I have a fussy middle-of-the-road position on ecclesiology. Each congregation should at least have an assigned priest, even if shared with other parishes. I want each priest to be under a bishop, as that was pretty well settled for a millennium and a half. That said, I don't have much faith in bishops. They're supposed to foster Christian unity, not dilute the faith in the process of doing that. Considering the Bible's strictures on women in authority, I don't find it surprising that any denomination that consecrates women bishops seems to always go astray. But I find women priests to be frequently better than men.
Obviously I find AFLC (Association of Free Lutherans Congregations) to be too low-church for me, as also LCMC. NALC is close to my ideal, but I have to admit to reservations about being a confessional Lutheran. ELCA is theoretically confessional, but is looser in practice with it specificity on the Augsburg Confession. I have "almost" full faith in it, but I like the Apology even better. I like Melanchthon's theology and Luther's more Catholic beliefs. No Lutheran body really fits what I want (particularly regarding the Athanasian Creed, which seems these days to be a peculiarly Lutheran affectation). At least include "catholic" if it is to be used at all.
Obviously I am miles away from WELS. LCMC is the best compromise between conservative and liberal Lutheran bodies, but I like NALC better because it accepts the theory of ecumenicity with non-Lutherans. Do we Lutherans really want to believe (or at least say in our Creed) that only Lutherans are Christians? LCMC takes the WELS side on that which to me is unacceptable. At least LCMS retains "catholic", so on this point LCMC is narrower than LCMS (at least if the priest in Lodi represents the practice of the whole denomination).
 
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Korah

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Well the Book of Concord uses "Christian" in the creed so the Lutheran denominations just ran with it. I don't really mind either way.
I looked up the Book of Concord on the internet, and the version of the Athanasian Creed "universally" employs "catholic" and not "Christian". I suspect your denomination (AFLC?) prints or uses a Book of Concord that goes its own way to substitute "Christian" for "catholic". WELS I would expect would print its Book of Concord (discordantly) so. Perhaps that's a great test of how "conservative" ("radical" in this case) a Lutheran body is, that it presumes to use "Christian" when the real Athanasian Creed is "catholic", for which there would be sufficient warrant to use the English word "universal" (which nobody does that I know of). The standard "cop-out" is just to avoid use of the Athanasian Creed altogether.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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I looked up the Book of Concord on the internet, and the version of the Athanasian Creed "universally" employs "catholic" and not "Christian". I suspect your denomination (AFLC?) prints or uses a Book of Concord that goes its own way to substitute "Christian" for "catholic". WELS I would expect would print its Book of Concord (discordantly) so. Perhaps that's a great test of how "conservative" ("radical" in this case) a Lutheran body is, that it presumes to use "Christian" when the real Athanasian Creed is "catholic", for which there would be sufficient warrant to use the English word "universal" (which nobody does that I know of). The standard "cop-out" is just to avoid use of the Athanasian Creed altogether.

At the time of the Reformation in German speaking states, Christian is the direct translation from the German version. In the Triglot, in Latin it's "Catholic", in the German and English, Christian.
 
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Korah

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Who translated the Athanasian Creed into German? And by what authority did "Catholic" become "Christian". Are Lutherans the only Christians? And just some Lutherans--one has to be WELS or LCMC to be saved? Even among Lutherans that concept is outvoted ten to one.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Who translated the Athanasian Creed into German? And by what authority did "Catholic" become "Christian". Are Lutherans the only Christians? And just some Lutherans--one has to be WELS or LCMC to be saved? Even among Lutherans that concept is outvoted ten to one.
Take a deep breath and relax: Prior to there ever being a "Lutheran Church" it was common when German people recited the creed in German that the following phrase was in very common usage: "Heilige Christliche Kirche" ; which translates "Holy Christian Church".

History is what it is; those who try and change it are "revisionists"; Lutherans are not revisionists; read the BoC; traditions retained for the sake of good order is the norm.
 
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