Islamic refugees

Ubuntu

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When I lived in a large, European city I once had a good friend who was a Muslim. He was a political refugee and couldn’t go back to his country, he told me that he most likely would be killed if he returned.

I remember discussing and comparing our faiths, and to be honest he was very perceptive when it came to spiritual things.

I remember that he compared sanctification with polishing a metal vessel: In itself the vessel is without any light and brilliance of its own, but the more it is polished, the better it reflects the rays of the sun...

The truth is that Muslims might have been given less light than Christians, but many of them are sincere and are more faithful than Christians who have a greater light, but who disregard the light they have been given.

Adventists should have a deep respect for Muslims. Like us they don’t drink alcohol and they don’t eat pork. Their example in this respect is a rebuke to many Christians.

Furthermore, there is no stereotypical Muslim. They are just as different as Christians are. There are good Muslims and Bad Muslims, some of them are short and some are tall. There are many different Muslim denominations too, something we shouldn't forget.

The biggest problem I see about immigration from Muslim countries is the media coverage. The media give people the impression that Muslims in general are fanatics. This creates widespread prejudice and makes integration more difficult. (The second biggest problem is the way we Europeans have settled our immigrants; how we have gathered them together in the big cities, creating ghettos.)
 
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CaptainToad

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Adventists should have a deep respect for Muslims. Like us they don’t drink alcohol and they don’t eat pork. Their example in this respect is a rebuke to many Christians.

I dont actually see a reason for respect here - much less deep respect. The kingdom of heaven is not about eating or drinking, its about accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. Jesus says, He is the Way, the Truth and the Light, and the bible confirms that there is no other name given to man by which to be saved.

So I dont see any light at all here.

Those Hare Krishna guys dont eat meat at all - should adventist have a deeper respect for them?

:):):)
 
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Dave-W

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There are many different Muslim denominations too, something we shouldn't forget.
Very true. We have seen what happens when 2 of the major denominations get "radicalized."

Shia Islam: remember Ayatolah Kumeni?
Suni Islam: Al Keida and ISIS.

But what I truly am leery of is if/when Sufi Islam gets radicalized. Unlike Shia and Suni, which are primarily intellectual religions; Sufi is spiritual - as in black magic spiritual. There can be no physical or even psychological protections against that kind of terror. Only God's Spirit can stop that.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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I dont actually see a reason for respect here - much less deep respect. The kingdom of heaven is not about eating or drinking, its about accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. Jesus says, He is the Way, the Truth and the Light, and the bible confirms that there is no other name given to man by which to be saved.

So I dont see any light at all here.

Those Hare Krishna guys dont eat meat at all - should adventist have a deeper respect for them?

:):):)
Great point... I have also 'admired' the faithfulness of Muslims but you are correct. A perfect heathen is still a heathen.
 
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Ubuntu

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Well, as a matter of fact I do respect adherents of the Hare Krishna movement. Their grasp of the health message equals that of adventists in many instances, although there certainly are important differences. Sure, our diet doesn’t save us, but God wants us to be healthy and have clear minds.

Mutual respect is necessary in order to bring a person to Christ. You won’t be able to impress the heart of a person who despise you, and the opposite is also true… If you look down on a person, then this person will see no reason to believe in the things you say about Jesus.

Take a look at what Paul the apostle said about pagans, this is why it isn’t our job to lash out against people of different faiths:

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous before God, but those who do the law will be declared righteous. For whenever the Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, these who do not have the law are a law to themselves. They show that the work of the law is written in their hearts, as their conscience bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or else defend them."

Romans 2:14-15
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Well, as a matter of fact I do respect adherents of the Hare Krishna movement. Their grasp of the health message equals that of adventists in many instances, although there certainly are important differences. Sure, our diet doesn’t save us, but God wants us to be healthy and have clear minds.
I know more than a couple of Adventists who have made the health message their religion...

While I recognize that eating and living healthier is for our benefit, I do not ascribe to the near fanaticism that some Adventists raise it to. Using the example of Christ as our guide, He ate fish and lamb, at the least, so we know this cannot be salvational in anyway. There are more passages in the NT that show temperance of moderation rather than the temperance of exclusion... isn't the verse that people weak in the faith eat veggies not a direct rebuke to this quasi militant veggie brigade that judge you worthy in the church because you eat the Biblical diet?
 
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CaptainToad

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I know more than a couple of Adventists who have made the health message their religion...

While I recognize that eating and living healthier is for our benefit, I do not ascribe to the near fanaticism that some Adventists raise it to. Using the example of Christ as our guide, He ate fish and lamb, at the least, so we know this cannot be salvational in anyway. There are more passages in the NT that show temperance of moderation rather than the temperance of exclusion... isn't the verse that people weak in the faith eat veggies not a direct rebuke to this quasi militant veggie brigade that judge you worthy in the church because you eat the Biblical diet?

ECR!

After all these years, this has been your best post ever, I must give you that! Its like reading the Truth!

Keep it up!
 
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CaptainToad

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A 17year old afghan went on a German train WITH AN AXE! yesterday - he didnt kill anyone - just injured them severely. Anyway, I heard an interesting opinion today - this could be God's vengeance on the Germans for killing so many of His people (Yes, they are still His people - due to His covenant with Abraham!). Interesting indeed, I wonder if they will make more organized attacks - like in every city on the same day, thousands of muslims killing innocent people - When will the Germans wake up!
 
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Dave-W

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Yes, they are still His people - due to His covenant with Abraham!). Interesting indeed, I wonder if they will make more organized attacks - like in every city on the same day, thousands of muslims killing innocent people - When will the Germans wake up!
The spirit of islam (antichrist) is trying to prevent the 2nd coming by killing off the Jews. (and keeping the ones alive from the gospel)

Matt 23.37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
 
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CaptainToad

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The spirit of islam (antichrist) is trying to prevent the 2nd coming by killing off the Jews. (and keeping the ones alive from the gospel)

Matt 23.37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

That seems to be the case - I guess the islamic flood is part of the end, then.
 
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love2obey

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A 17year old afghan went on a German train WITH AN AXE! yesterday - he didnt kill anyone - just injured them severely. Anyway, I heard an interesting opinion today - this could be God's vengeance on the Germans for killing so many of His people (Yes, they are still His people - due to His covenant with Abraham!). Interesting indeed, I wonder if they will make more organized attacks - like in every city on the same day, thousands of muslims killing innocent people - When will the Germans wake up!

when we look at the bible within context, we find that the difference for God between His and those who are not His is faith.
There is no difference in nationality for God. Yes He does keep His promises but only to those who keep their faith.
We find more than one occasion where God blessed someone and the person lost the blessing after it chose to do its own will. therefore, with all due respect to those hold dear the covenant of Abraham, it is no more than saying today Once saved always saved as if God's people can willingly sin and be saved. We are all accountable for our actions no matter what the promise is. The promise becomes alive when we by faith live up to it. There was a reason why God kept the Tree of Life from humanity after sin became part of God's creation
 
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CaptainToad

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when we look at the bible within context, we find that the difference for God between His and those who are not His is faith.
There is no difference in nationality for God. Yes He does keep His promises but only to those who keep their faith.
We find more than one occasion where God blessed someone and the person lost the blessing after it chose to do its own will. therefore, with all due respect to those hold dear the covenant of Abraham, it is no more than saying today Once saved always saved as if God's people can willingly sin and be saved. We are all accountable for our actions no matter what the promise is. The promise becomes alive when we by faith live up to it. There was a reason why God kept the Tree of Life from humanity after sin became part of God's creation

That is not entirely true. Like I said before, the promise has been made to Abraham in regard to his descendants. God keeps his promises. He is faithful even if we are unfaithful. Nowhere in the bible do you find a text which says that Israel is no longer God's people. Paul speaks about a hardening of the heart for the children of israel until the end of the time of the pagans (Romans 11).
I believe this hardening of the heart was from God, probably a special plan or something. Anyway, they are still God's people and God will take vengeance on anyone who harms them IMHO.
 
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BobRyan

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Just btw, as many of you have realized, islamic refugees are flooding Europe. A woman names Merkel has invited them, not that she has asked me or anybody else, but still those people are coming. I dont like it - to say it bluntly. Its a pagan religion in my opinion, and those people are apparently dangerous, ticking time bombs (no pun intended).

The arabic nations, who are their brothers dont want to help them, but they want to send down some money to muild mosques :) :) - yeah, thats funny...

WHat do you guys think, should christians really help those guys or send them back to where they came from?

I think we should help those who do not preach violence. But a great majority of muslims want Sharia law and believe it is right to murder fellow muslims that convert to Christianity. We need a way to verify that this is not what we are importing and part of that has to do with what they teach in their mosques. They need to agree to have their worship services open to the public just like all other religions do in America. And when those services are found to be preaching violence those responsible should be deported.

We should tell immigrants up front that this non-violent policy is one they must agree with if they want to come here. Of course evil people will offer to lie - so perhaps we should get an enlightened Imam to help us convince them that they get no 72-virgins if they walk the path of Satan and violence. Maybe they should be sent to some sort of religious services for a few weeks where their own Imam's enlighten them.

Germany has them in refugee "groups" at leas for a while -- and those groups probably reveal a lot of "confirming or disconfirming" facts about who is in the group ... just pay attention to what is going on there.
 
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BobRyan

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Imagine you have a daughter, lets say in her teens, she walks down the street and gets raped by a muslim - a refugee that was invited by some governments in order to escape a war or something. What do you tell your daughter? Dont worry about who might rape you? Isnt it Jesus who saves us all? - .

What is it you propose to "tell the daughter"??
 
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Dave-W

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[citation needed]
I gave you Matt 23. Without believing Jews to welcome HIM back, He will not come. (and according to Zech 14 he comes to the Mount of Olives at Jerusalem's eastern gate)

And remember Herod killing off all the male boys in and around Bethlehem; a ploy by the devil to keep HIM from coming to earth the first time?
 
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Armoured

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I gave you Matt 23. Without believing Jews to welcome HIM back, He will not come. (and according to Zech 14 he comes to the Mount of Olives at Jerusalem's eastern gate)

And remember Herod killing off all the male boys in and around Bethlehem; a ploy by the devil to keep HIM from coming to earth the first time?
What does that have to do with Islam?
 
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Dave-W

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What does that have to do with Islam?
It has to do with the spirit of antichrist.

Islam is involved as that is the demonic entity worshiped in that religion. One of the foundational tenets is "God has no son." According to first John, it is the spirit of antichrist that denies the Son.
 
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CaptainToad

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What is it you propose to "tell the daughter"??

This post was just to show the whole ridiculousness of letting those people in.

I sincerely hope that my government will not let those guys in. And should they finally have to (due to EU pressure), I hope that my society will be strong enough to stick together and handle the situation, in whatever way necessary to prevent muslims from doing any harm to innocent people. If they want to behave like animals let them do it elsewhere!
 
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