How do you know who and what is right?

Romans 8:19
For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.

There will always be false prophets who say they believe the truth but do not. Some are Christians who are just genuinely confused about certain topics.

Your job is not to find the right church or the body of believers who believe the right thing, but rather your job is to seek God on your own and to find out for yourself what His Word says. I've been confused over many different issues but ultimately I have pursued God's truth ever since my conversion. The true believers are those who genuinely seek and grow in the truth.

I hope that helps.

theniceiceman said:

One of the things that frustrates me more than anything is the fact that there's TONS of Christian denominations, first of all, but also just that there's so many religions in general. I respect other peoples' religions, and also the beliefs of other denominations...but it makes me sit here and think, how the heck do we know who's right?

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Maybe none of them are right? Is the point of religion to be right? Does God really care that much that he stalks us looking for when we slip up intellectually or spiritually? I remember the somewhat well known saying that a pastor once said, that he expected when he got to heaven, to have his beliefs corrected, because he was convinced no-one had it all right. I think that's a very healthy attitude to take. Religion is very much a man-made construct, but faith can be something more than what church you go to or even what doctrines you believe.

I have religious OCD/scrupulosity, so that doesn't help matters. I can't just relax in my 'Christian walk' because I always worry that I'm being deceived/falling away/making the wrong choice/choosing the wide road instead of the narrow.

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You sound like you are in a difficult place. You should really investigate some Lutheran theology, just because I think it would be a fresh approach to these issues. Not so much in a systematic way, but get involved in reading some books about the spirituality of Lutheranism. The reason I suggest this is because alot of people have found a measure of peace in considering that ultimately these sorts of issues are out of their hands and not under their control in the first place, and adopting a theology that puts the responsibility for their salvation completely in God's hands.

You might also benefit from a general questioning of your beliefs... why do you have such a harsh view of God that you think God would be offended by getting the details wrong? Sometimes OCD has genetic causes, but often times there are deep-seated psychological issues at play. Harsh parental and religious figures and teachings are one frequent cause, because we invest so much trust in them.

I went through a period myself where I was fed up with church, stopped going to any church for months, and I wasn't sure if I believed anything. I was not only disgusted with the church, full of narrow-minded people, but I also increasingly became disgusted by just the idea of God. But, I started reflecting on my life and the things I had and I really realized, hey, I had gotten away with alot of crap in my life and nothing bad happened to me... in fact, good things happened to me despite all the various failings I have, or sins I have done and still continue to do. It was an overwhelming feeling of "grace abounding". When I experienced that, I realized why I was angry and the things I needed to do to fix that, primarily to let go of so much life-robbing self-absorbtion.

I'm convinced that we often have these demonic images of God in our heads, a harsh judge, a control freak, and none of them are remotely accurate, even though various segments of the Christian population really push them for their own political agendas or psychological motives (perhaps they are power or control-freaks). Sometimes what we need is to step away from our own religious beliefs and really reflect on what is going on in our life to get to the root of our spiritual and psychological problems.

I still don't go to church but I am thinking about it, but I have given up on the anger and frustration.

Are you familiar with CS Lewis? He once compared Christianity to a hotel. Our job, he argues, is to get people in one of the rooms--i.e. One of the denominations, even if it's like our own. The point is that only the essentials of the Christian faith--sin, Christ, resurrection, salvation, redemption and righteous living--are the most important things. When you boil Christianity down to its basic elements it's very simple.

I don't think there is any one denomination that has it all correct since every denomination has mankind involved in it. If you want to know what it is important to God, just look at what Jesus said. The commandments are to "love God" and "love your neighbor", and everything else falls into place, the importance is how we love, not on what we believe, which almost every denomination in Christiandom believes what's written in the early creeds.

While I do personally hope and pray for unity in the church, I do think there is a bit of good found in having different denominations. As C.S. Lewis, which grand just quoted, said, it's okay if someone is in a different denomination. Why? I think different denominations are good for different people, some people meet Christ through the liturgical churches, and some meet Christ through charismatic services.

"If thou canst bear the whole yoke of the Lord, thou wilt be perfect, but if thou canst not, do what thou canst."

I agree that it can be a bit of a problem what to believe. I use two criteria, but they’re only going to work for liberals. You’re asking this question in the liberal group, so an answer like this seems reasonable.

For me, the Bible provides a wide degree of latitude about what to believe. It tends to talk about God and Jesus using stories and images. It doesn’t give us the kind of precise statements you’ll find in credal documents on a lot of topics. There are plenty of questions we’d like answers to that it doesn’t give them explicitly. Everything from baptism to abortion. I know lots of people get indignant when you say this, because they're convinced that their answers are the Biblical ones. But if you look carefully you find that they're drawing conclusions from things that weren't addressed to the questions they're asking, and they're often making inferences that I think are questionable.

1) The first thing I look for in a Christian community is a group that’s honest about what the Bible does and doesn’t say. It won’t come to a conclusion and then claim that it’s the only conclusion one can come to unless it actually is.

Such a group is going to be cautious about the kinds of abstract descriptions one finds from the later ecumenical councils. It’s also going to allow a range of views on many of today’s hot issues.

2) The second thing I look for is a group that uses the best in modern scholarship, even though that may result in changes from time to time.

In my opinion there’s really only one group that does this, which is the mainline churches, as well as some of the more broad-minded evangelical churches. Fortunately, although they may not entirely agree, they all accept a wide enough range of views that they’re broadly consistent with each other. That’s why they are increasingly in formal communion with each other.

To me this follows from the nature of Jesus’ teaching and the documents we find in the Bible. Jesus taught largely using stories. He could have dictated a theological textbook, but he didn’t. Why not? Perhaps he wanted to allow people to come to their own conclusions. It seems to me that many Christians aren’t really happy with this.

FireDragon76 said:

Maybe none of them are right?

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Well it's impossible for everyone to be right, but for everyone to be wrong is a possibility.

I realize it's not really this simple. But I try to ask in every case. If it is an act, is it loving?
If it is a person, are they teaching from love? That's only where I start but it seems to be a fairly helpful start.

ReadingForOrders said:

I realize it's not really this simple. But I try to ask in every case. If it is an act, is it loving?
If it is a person, are they teaching from love? That's only where I start but it seems to be a fairly helpful start.

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Actually, it may be almost that simple. Being OCD will make it difficult for you, but one thing we should realize is that Jesus did not leave us a complete and detailed list of instructions. That is the big reason we have so many different views on what it takes to be Christian. Jesus left us a few basic instructions, and churches have added thousands of rules and doctrines, obscuring what is truly essential, and each is different.

I would recommend you read the Gospels through. Do not concern yourself with understanding or interpreting each passage. Rather, look for the core truths and commands that Jesus gave us. They run throughout the Gospels. And by core, I don't mean 50, or 25 or even 10. I mean 3, maybe 4. If you watch for them and how often they appear, you will find them. They should jump out at you.

But, you will say, those core truths and teachings do not cover every possibility. Jesus doesn't address abortion, the death penalty or other religions directly or specifically. True, but he does address them and everything else in his teachings. He tells us to follow him, using our own conscience and those basic commandments, in making moral decisions, in seeing what is right and what is wrong.

if you are unsure about what to do or what is right, refer back to Jesus. Before you listen to and follow anyone or any faith group, listen to and follow him.

Well, I mean, obviously it's we Lutherans that are right.

-CryptoLutheran

ReadingForOrders said:

I realize it's not really this simple. But I try to ask in every case. If it is an act, is it loving?
If it is a person, are they teaching from love? That's only where I start but it seems to be a fairly helpful start.

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This is really good advice. I'm shocked by how many religious people seem to skip over the "love" bit first. It's true that we must deal with difficult issues and sometimes the answers do not come easily, but sometimes I think religious people miss out on the "love" bit.

Thank you for your very kind words.

Martinius said:

Actually, it may be almost that simple. Being OCD will make it difficult for you, but one thing we should realize is that Jesus did not leave us a complete and detailed list of instructions. That is the big reason we have so many different views on what it takes to be Christian. Jesus left us a few basic instructions, and churches have added thousands of rules and doctrines, obscuring what is truly essential, and each is different.

I would recommend you read the Gospels through. Do not concern yourself with understanding or interpreting each passage. Rather, look for the core truths and commands that Jesus gave us. They run throughout the Gospels. And by core, I don't mean 50, or 25 or even 10. I mean 3, maybe 4. If you watch for them and how often they appear, you will find them. They should jump out at you.

But, you will say, those core truths and teachings do not cover every possibility. Jesus doesn't address abortion, the death penalty or other religions directly or specifically. True, but he does address them and everything else in his teachings. He tells us to follow him, using our own conscience and those basic commandments, in making moral decisions, in seeing what is right and what is wrong.

if you are unsure about what to do or what is right, refer back to Jesus. Before you listen to and follow anyone or any faith group, listen to and follow him.

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My friend all good advice but is it possible that you may have me confused with the original poster?

Hello Theniceiceman.

You raised some interesting points.

One of the things that frustrates me more than anything is the fact that there's TONS of Christian
denominations, first of all, but also just that there's so many religions in general. I respect other peoples'
religions, and also the beliefs of other denominations...but it makes me sit here and think, how the heck do
we know who's right?

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Like you I also have been frustrated by the multitude of Christian denominations in existence. The more you
research the more denominations you will find, literally thousands of denominations. Though many denominations
have identical core doctrines, for example the death and resurrection of the Christ is obviously a common doctrine.

If there's only ONE right answer, why do so many people think different things?

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Simply because there are no two people in the world that are identical, each person has a different viewpoint on
what is important to them. Many people have been taught what they should believe, very few seriously question
what they have been taught.

And how are we meant to know what's right? Some person will say 'The Holy Spirit revealed to me this-and-this'.
Another person says, 'Well he told ME 'this-and-that.' And then person #3 says, 'The Holy Spirit told ME that I'M the
only one who's right, and it's actually this-and-this-and-this-and-that.'

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The only one who can be correct in the end is God Himself. If they have the testimony of Jesus Christ on their lips
then they have the truth. If they walk in love every day then they have received the Holy Spirit. This is how you will
know who the real Christians are niceman.

And I'm sitting here like, um...okay...sooooo...the Holy Spirit told you guys three different things? That can't be
the case...right?

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If they are centered on the Christ, then they have the truth and speak the truth.

I have religious OCD/scrupulosity, so that doesn't help matters. I can't just relax in my 'Christian walk' because
I always worry that I'm being deceived/falling away/making the wrong choice/choosing the wide road instead of the narrow.

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Relax and revel in the revelation of Jesus Christ, He is the same yesterday and forever. Fashion and doctrines come and go, but the Christ is eternal. You will be subject to Jesus when He returns, your doctrinal accuracy is irrelevant.

Why didn't God make 100% sure that everyone would understand, and agree upon, the Bible? How do we know
what's right?

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God did everything necessary for everyone's salvation, that is what the death and resurrection of the Christ is all about.
The reconciliation of everything in heaven and on earth to God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Gospel is simple and was always simply about Jesus, we preach only the death and resurrection of the Christ.

ReadingForOrders said:

My friend all good advice but is it possible that you may have me confused with the original poster?

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My apologies for being so unclear. It was like I was addressing two people as one. While the bulk of my comments were in reply to your post, I should have addressed the OCD part to the OP.

theniceiceman said:

but it makes me sit here and think, how the heck do we know who's right?

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Judgement Day will be like the Oscars. "And the winner is........"

FireDragon76 said:

I'm convinced that we often have these demonic images of God in our heads, a harsh judge, a control freak, and none of them are remotely accurate

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Sounds like the God that has been in my head recently.

FireDragon76 said:

Maybe none of them are right? Is the point of religion to be right?

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That is an interesting question. Maybe we are too focussed on who or what is right. Then we get arrogant for thinking we are on the winning team and all the rest are a bunch of losers.

bettercallpaul said:

Maybe we are too focussed on who or what is right. Then we get arrogant for thinking we are on the winning team and all the rest are a bunch of losers.

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I think you are on to something here. We do make faith and religion into a competition at times, and on worrying about who and what are right or wrong, or who is best. Some people cheer for their church like it is a sports team playing for a championship. To me, the biggest fallacy is proclaiming your doctrine the one and only correct doctrine...when Jesus was not about doctrine at all. Most Christian churches have distorted the Gospel so as to be barely recognizable in their teachings.

If you worry about who or what is right, wrong or best you are worrying about the wrong thing.