General Conference -- Are you ready?

GraceSeeker

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GC is just around the corner. The United Methodist Church’s top legislative body will meet at the Oregon Convention Center, the largest convention center in the Pacific Northwest, on May 10-20, 2016.

General Conference is the top policy-making body of The United Methodist Church which meets once every four years. The conference can revise church law, as well as adopt resolutions on current moral, social, public policy and economic issues. It also approves plans and budgets for church-wide programs.

But what do you really know about it? Jeremy Smith attempts to clear up some misconceptions about our Quadrennial gathering in his blogpost Four Half-Truths — and One Truth — About General Conference.
 

food4thought

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No... I am concerned that this is the conference that practicing gay clergy will be endorsed for the US. This will be a serious blow to my confidence in the leadership of the UMC. It might be enough to cause me to switch churches, ~sigh~ , again :(

Same sex marriage is more likely to be adopted, but it doesn't affect me as much, even though it also would affect my respect for and confidence in the UMC's leadership.
 
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circuitrider

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No... I am concerned that this is the conference that practicing gay clergy will be endorsed for the US. This will be a serious blow to my confidence in the leadership of the UMC. It might be enough to cause me to switch churches, ~sigh~ , again :(

Same sex marriage is more likely to be adopted, but it doesn't affect me as much, even though it also would affect my respect for and confidence in the UMC's leadership.

I think it is anyone's guess as to what will happen on sexuality issues in GC. But I have serious doubts that we will see as much change as people either want or are afraid of.
 
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PakMamat

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No... I am concerned that this is the conference that practicing gay clergy will be endorsed for the US. This will be a serious blow to my confidence in the leadership of the UMC. It might be enough to cause me to switch churches, ~sigh~ , again :(

Same sex marriage is more likely to be adopted, but it doesn't affect me as much, even though it also would affect my respect for and confidence in the UMC's leadership.
Your concerns are certainly not misplaced. But I don't think any of the groups wanting to change the current language have the votes necessary to do so.
 
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circuitrider

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While I don't expect change. I will be disappointed if things stay just as they are. Right now I'd estimate about 40-45% of United Methodists in the US don't approve of our current policy. Yes, this is a minority. But it is such a signifianct percentage that to ignore all these folks is a major problem. I would like to see is find a way to agree to disagree, to allow some latitude for pastors, churches and conferences in the issue of same sex marriage and then move on.

My fear is that while we keep ourselves in a situation where more that 40% of the US membership disagrees with a major policy, we will lose more people, and many people will become further and further discouraged with the the institutional church.
 
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GraceSeeker

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I agree that if we have a situation where something there is a significant minority of the church that disagrees with the rest of the church, that even though the majority could force through a statement that would affirm the majority's opinion, that we ought not. Major items of policy ought, in my opinion at least (not necessarily by rule), to be decided by more than simple majority. We need to work to build consensus. Where no is available, and unlikely to become available in the foreseeable future, we ought not to be making declarative statements that speak for the whole of the denomination when the truth is that the denomination is very divided.

Where I disagree, circuitrider, is with the rationale you gave for reaching the same decision. I don't think that the issue of losing people or of people becoming further discouraged with the institutional church is tied to the UMC's position on homosexuality. I look at the PCUSA, the ELCA, the Episcopal Church USA, the UCC, all denominations that have taken very progressive positions with regard to the accepting of practicing homosexual clergy and supporting the celebration of same sex marriages and those decisions haven't changed the direction of their loss of membership. Indeed, one might argue that in several cases they have aggravated it, and I am very sure that they will in the UMC.

We either have to find a way to unite around agreeing to disagree that doesn't at the same time become a form of forcing others to conform, or just get on with admitting we are not united and try to find a way to amicably divorce.
 
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circuitrider

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GraceSeeker, I see two difference kinds of losses to the church over the issue of homosexuality. While I don't want us to lose members in the UMC when conservatives leave the UMC or another mainline church over sexuality issues it appears to me that they usually go to some other church. They may be a loss to the mainline but dont' usually appear to be a loss to the faith.

What I'm seeing from young people who are LGBTQ as well as their friends and family is that when they leave they leave because they believe the Church has no sense of Grace or justice for them. So they don't go to another church or denomination. Mostly they give up on the faith or at least on organized Church. That is in part where we are getting the folks listed as "no religious preference" or "spiritual but not religious." According to polls I've studied from the Public Religious Research Institute fully 1/3 of those folks who no longer have a church affiliate left the faith over the issues of sexuality.

For me this gets more personal because I know people I'm close to that have left the Church forever over perception that the church is judgemental on this issue. I only know of a few cases where they went an joined a more liberal Church. Most of the time, in pain and anger, they just leave and don't come back. Once burned twice shy.
 
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circuitrider

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So when you write: "we will lose more people, and many people will become further and further discouraged with the the institutional church," the "we" in your statement refers not to the UMC in particular, but the Church as a whole?

I believe it is both. I know LGBTQ Methodists who are hanging on for their love of their church but are so on the verge of being discouraged beyond repair that one more vote that makes them feel like they aren't really part of the church may be the last thing they can take. Every four years they've had their hearts broken and every four years it feel worse to them.

Also when you take the dichotomy that most of the mainline denominations have now accepted them in some form or fashion it only makes them wonder even more why the UMC isn't going to accept them too. Same sex marriage being allowed in every state and most mainline denominations accepting them now make the UMC look even more judgemental in their eyes than it did when the UMCs position was the norm among mainliners.

Oh a few of these folks will join the UCC or something else. But most of them are so sick and tired that they'll just do the easiest thing. They'll stay home on Sunday out of discouragement and disillusionment and not bother to do the work of looking for another faith community.

As to the rest of the church, the fact that while mainline churches are accepting them many mainline churches are splitting and dividing also is just a discouragement. The longer the Church is divided over sexuality I believe the more of the current generation we will all lose to the Church forever. It is an evangelistic nightmare because we made a particular position on sex the most important doctrine when no creed of our faith ever said it was.
 
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PakMamat

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While I don't expect change. I will be disappointed if things stay just as they are. Right now I'd estimate about 40-45% of United Methodists in the US don't approve of our current policy. Yes, this is a minority. But it is such a signifianct percentage that to ignore all these folks is a major problem. I would like to see is find a way to agree to disagree, to allow some latitude for pastors, churches and conferences in the issue of same sex marriage and then move on.

My fear is that while we keep ourselves in a situation where more that 40% of the US membership disagrees with a major policy, we will lose more people, and many people will become further and further discouraged with the the institutional church.
I agree with your assessment of the current problem facing the United Methodist Church. However, based on my understanding of the various factors, I don't believe the solution you provide ('to allow some latitude for pastors, churches and conferences in the issue of same sex marriage') will be beneficial in the long run. In fact, I think that it will only contribute to the denomination's long decline in the United States.

On this particular issue, there are entrenched positions within the UMC. On the one hand, there are millions of members in the US and overseas that firmly believe that blessing same-sex marriages and ordaining practicing homosexuals to the clergy would weaken their witness as orthodox Christians and, on a more personal level, that this is simply a matter of sin. This reality may anger and frustrate many people within the UMC, but it is the situation as it exists today, and it is again the firm position of millions of UMC members. Similarly, as you note, there are many United Methodists primarily in the US (perhaps even more than 45% you note) and Europe that feel that the UMC's current position is discriminative and damaging to their witness in specific cultural contexts and to homosexual believers.

The reason why leaving it up to individual congregations or conferences is a bad idea is the same reason why the Episcopal Church USA's recent decisions on homosexuality have been so disastrous for the worldwide Anglican Communion. There are simply large numbers of Anglicans around the world that feel that they cannot be in communion with those who reject what is to them a very basic scriptural truth. This has led to a long and very messy schism.

The solution, in my opinion, is an amicable split decided at the congregation level. What prevents it is a winner-take-all attitude.
 
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food4thought

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To me, this is not a matter of accepting and loving LGBTQ people. We are called to love everyone, no matter what. The issue is: do we love LGBTQ people enough to speak the truth to them in love? I know that there are many people who have "reinterpreted" the Bible on this subject, but I have not heard any such argument that is in any way convincing unless one wants to believe it. It is painfully clear to me that in both the OT and the NT same sex "relations" is labeled a sin, and we should not be ashamed to proclaim it so, just as we should not be ashamed to proclaim any other activity or attidtude as sin.

Does that preclude them from becoming a Christian? NO. We are all sinners saved by the grace of God. But it should preclude them from leadership ministries according to 1st Timothy and Titus (let alone 1st John). And, I strongly believe, we should not be asking for God's blessing on, or endorsing in God's name, a union that will without doubt include activity that God calls an abomination.

If I were in charge, I would let whoever exhibits the desire and gifting to be a pastor, and allow everyone to marry whoever they want (assuming their is consent)... but I am NOT in charge, God is... and He has made it abundantly clear to us what He has to say on the matter. That is the bottom line in my mind: do we twist Scripture to fit the culture, or do we bend the knee to God. I know which church I will support, and which church I will not be a part of.

We can all agree that LGBTQ people should be loved and accepted within the church, and we shouldn't condemn them for their sin anymore than we would an alcoholic or an adulterer. Still, we should love them enough to call them to live a life worthy of the high calling of Jesus Christ, and all the while encourage them, disciple them, love them, and accept them as brothers and sisters in Christ.

That is my 2 cents on the matter, for what it's worth.

BTW, what does the Q in LGBTQ stand for?
 
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circuitrider

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BTW, what does the Q in LGBTQ stand for?

The Q stands for "queer." It is a term used by the community for everyone else who is part of the LGBTQ community but can't be easily described as "gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered." This includes people who don't see sexuality as binary, persons who may consider themselves asexual, pansexual, etc.

As to an amicable split, there is no such thing. First of all we'd have to start being amicable. We've not managed that so far. A denominational split is much more complicated than just letting local congregations vote themselves in or out. Property is held in trust for the denomination. Who gets the agencies of the UMC? What about the pension board? Denominational splits are never "amicable."

Sadly, we have made believing the right thing about sex more important than any other doctrine or passage of scripture. I view that as approaching idolatry.
 
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food4thought

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The Q stands for "queer." It is a term used by the community for everyone else who is part of the LGBTQ community but can't be easily described as "gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered." This includes people who don't see sexuality as binary, persons who may consider themselves asexual, pansexual, etc.

As to an amicable split, there is no such thing. First of all we'd have to start being amicable. We've not managed that so far. A denominational split is much more complicated than just letting local congregations vote themselves in or out. Property is held in trust for the denomination. Who gets the agencies of the UMC? What about the pension board? Denominational splits are never "amicable."

Sadly, we have made believing the right thing about sex more important than any other doctrine or passage of scripture. I view that as approaching idolatry.

Thanks for the answer, circuitrider. I don't think it's any more important than other Scripture, it just happens to be where the public debate is currently raging.
 
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circuitrider

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Thanks for the answer, circuitrider. I don't think it's any more important than other Scripture, it just happens to be where the public debate is currently raging.

Agreed. I don't think it is more important. But I believe for some it has become the sole mark of orthodoxy.
 
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PakMamat

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As to an amicable split, there is no such thing. First of all we'd have to start being amicable. We've not managed that so far. A denominational split is much more complicated than just letting local congregations vote themselves in or out. Property is held in trust for the denomination. Who gets the agencies of the UMC? What about the pension board? Denominational splits are never "amicable."

Sadly, we have made believing the right thing about sex more important than any other doctrine or passage of scripture. I view that as approaching idolatry.
I do understand where you are coming from, but I don't at all agree that it is idolatry.

Regardless, I know that an amicable split would not be easy, but it is much better than the alternative -- conservatives in the US allying with the growing global church to squeeze out all progressives within the UMC. That seems to be the direction things are going, and I think it would be painful for everyone.
 
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circuitrider

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I do understand where you are coming from, but I don't at all agree that it is idolatry.

Regardless, I know that an amicable split would not be easy, but it is much better than the alternative -- conservatives in the US allying with the growing global church to squeeze out all progressives within the UMC. That seems to be the direction things are going, and I think it would be painful for everyone.

I don't think squeezing out the progressives in the UMC is actually going to happen or is doable. We may be an international Church but we mostly operate as distinct annual conferences. Unless you want to reenact the split of the Methodist Episcopal Church and the MEC South, I don't see progressives leaving. The differences in the denomination are very regional. We aren't homogenized.
 
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PakMamat

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I don't think squeezing out the progressives in the UMC is actually going to happen or is doable. We may be an international Church but we mostly operate as distinct annual conferences. Unless you want to reenact the split of the Methodist Episcopal Church and the MEC South, I don't see progressives leaving. The differences in the denomination are very regional. We aren't homogenized.
You may be right. I suppose will know more even in just a few days.

God bless
 
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GraceSeeker

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You know what is scary, though the thread is about GC and GC has literally thousands of bits of legislation to discuss, this thread from the 2nd post on has been about one thing. And it wasn't the one thing I would project Jesus considering necessary for making the main thing the main thing.
 
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St Antony

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I do understand where you are coming from, but I don't at all agree that it is idolatry.

Regardless, I know that an amicable split would not be easy, but it is much better than the alternative -- conservatives in the US allying with the growing global church to squeeze out all progressives within the UMC. That seems to be the direction things are going, and I think it would be painful for everyone.

In mass yesterday (I grew up UMC but am now Roman Catholic), we sang Charles Wesley hymns and recited the Apostles' Creed, along with other liturgy, and I almost thought I was back in the First UMC from my youth. The point being, if the General Conference adopts gay clergy and approves same sex marriage, it seems there would be very little stopping the 1/3 or so conservative wing of the UMC from switching to RCC or evangelical churches (depending on how important authority and liturgy are to them). On the other hand, if the General Conference rejects both of these, then you will see a rather large exodus of liberal Methodists to the UCC, PCUSA, Epical churches, or out of the church altogether.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Agreed. I don't think it is more important. But I believe for some it has become the sole mark of orthodoxy.
Yes, for some it is the sole mark of conservative orthodoxy, for others it is the sole mark of liberal orthodoxy. Lots of people are using it as a litmus test to determine whether one is acceptable as a Christian or not.
 
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