What is Anglican communions final authority in faith, morals? the Bible or The consensus of the day?

graceandpeace · Apr 27, 2016

sonofedward said:
Gods Word is clear on the matter and Christendom has upheld this truth for 2,000 years. I find it ironic how ''some'' so called Anglicans say they follow the Word of God.

Your post asked for an explanation regarding how (some) Anglicans address homosexuality & ordination. My post offered some basic sources to help answer your inquiry.

Again, as stated, faithful Christians (not just Anglicans) have researched & studied these topics - and they have come to different conclusions about them. That's the reality with these topics & many others where Christians disagree. If the Bible were "clear," these disagreements would not exist.

sonofedward said:
Anglicans don't have a united position on the topics above so I have done nothing wrong. It's all so ironic, no wonder the communion is where it is today.

Again, your post asked for an explanation, & some responses have been offered. You may not teach or debate here, & attacking our faith is not permitted. You may post in fellowship or ask questions, but the attacking needs to stop. It's a violation of forum rules.

Padres1969 · Apr 27, 2016

sonofedward said:
Gods Word is clear on the matter and Christendom has upheld this truth for 2,000 years. I find it ironic how ''some'' so called Anglicans say they follow the Word of God.

It's really not. I'd direct you to the following bible passages just as a start regarding women in ministry during the apostolic age.

Acts 2:17
Acts 21:9
Romans 16:5
Romans 16:7
1 Timothy 3:11

The fact that the patriarchal church that rose during an era of patriarchy and maintained such a structure during the majority of the last 2000 years where men were in positions of power for the bulk of that time should not dissuade you from understanding that women were originally in positions of authority and prominence in the ministry. I mean think about who Christ first revealed himself to after the resurrection. In Mark 16:9-11 and John 20:11-18, Christ reveals himself to Mary Magdalene first, and she is the first to preach the resurrection fulfilled to the 11.

Shane R · Apr 28, 2016

I want to interject that Anglicanism is not a monolith in the mold of the Roman Catholic Church, but essentially a confederation of churches sharing a common history, set of documents (in the 39 articles and two Books of Homilies), form of Church government (episcopal), and common prayer. Anglicanism has always been more united by worship than by dogmatic formulae. So, Anglicanism in England is not necessarily reflective of the practice in Nigeria.

To summarize what Anglicanism is about, refer to the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral:

(a) The Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, as "containing all things necessary to salvation," and as being the rule and ultimate standard of faith.
(b) The Apostles' Creed, as the Baptismal Symbol; and the Nicene Creed, as the sufficient statement of the Christian faith.
(c) The two Sacraments ordained by Christ Himself — Baptism and the Supper of the Lord — ministered with unfailing use of Christ's Words of Institution, and of the elements ordained by Him.
(d) The Historic Episcopate, locally adapted in the methods of its administration to the varying needs of the nations and peoples called of God into the Unity of His Church.

Arcangl86 · Apr 28, 2016

shanethetheologian said:
I want to interject that Anglicanism is not a monolith in the mold of the Roman Catholic Church, but essentially a confederation of churches sharing a common history, set of documents (in the 39 articles and two Books of Homilies), form of Church government (episcopal), and common prayer. Anglicanism has always been more united by worship than by dogmatic formulae. So, Anglicanism in England is not necessarily reflective of the practice in Nigeria.

To summarize what Anglicanism is about, refer to the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral:

(a) The Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, as "containing all things necessary to salvation," and as being the rule and ultimate standard of faith.
(b) The Apostles' Creed, as the Baptismal Symbol; and the Nicene Creed, as the sufficient statement of the Christian faith.
(c) The two Sacraments ordained by Christ Himself — Baptism and the Supper of the Lord — ministered with unfailing use of Christ's Words of Institution, and of the elements ordained by Him.
(d) The Historic Episcopate, locally adapted in the methods of its administration to the varying needs of the nations and peoples called of God into the Unity of His Church.

Are the Homilies still influential? I did a lot of reading on the Covenant and the homilies weren't considered to be one of the formularies by that or the Windsor report.

Paidiske · Apr 28, 2016

Arcangl86 said:
Are the Homilies still influential? I did a lot of reading on the Covenant and the homilies weren't considered to be one of the formularies by that or the Windsor report.

Weellll.... technically, they're still a standard of "godly and wholesome doctrine." But I doubt you'd find many Anglicans, clergy or lay, who could tell you what godly and wholesome doctrine they contain.

I've read them - or more accurately, I think, skimmed them looking for points to include in an essay, when I was at college - and my main impression was that they were hopelessly dated, aimed at things which were issues in the era in which they were written, but extremely unlikely to be edifying for your average congregation today.

Hhmm. There's an idea. Maybe I ought to do a blog series on them.

Shane R · Apr 28, 2016

Arcangl86 said:
Are the Homilies still influential? I did a lot of reading on the Covenant and the homilies weren't considered to be one of the formularies by that or the Windsor report.

I think that depends on the particular stream of Anglicanism one is in. A more traditional approach recognizes their position in accordance with the 35th article: "The second Book of Homilies, the several titles whereof we have joined under this Article, doth contain a godly and wholesome Doctrine, and necessary for these times, as doth the former Book of Homilies, which were set forth in the time of Edward the Sixth; and therefore we judge them to be read in Churches by the Ministers, diligently and distinctly, that they may be understanded of the people." But then, some have all but given up on the Articles. . .

That said, I have never heard one of the homilies read in church (nor would I personally read one in its entirety to a congregation). However, to my knowledge they are still studied at least in passing in seminary. I know my own program will include a course to that effect.

Arcangl86 · Apr 28, 2016

Paidiske said:
Weellll.... technically, they're still a standard of "godly and wholesome doctrine." But I doubt you'd find many Anglicans, clergy or lay, who could tell you what godly and wholesome doctrine they contain.

I've read them - or more accurately, I think, skimmed them looking for points to include in an essay, when I was at college - and my main impression was that they were hopelessly dated, aimed at things which were issues in the era in which they were written, but extremely unlikely to be edifying for your average congregation today.

Hhmm. There's an idea. Maybe I ought to do a blog series on them.

Please, I would actually love to read that.

Paidiske · Apr 28, 2016

Arcangl86 said:
Please, I would actually love to read that.

Okay. Probably take a few weeks before I can source a copy, and then I'll actually have to do the reading and thinking work, but I'll take that on.

Shane R · Apr 28, 2016

Paidiske said:
Okay. Probably take a few weeks before I can source a copy, and then I'll actually have to do the reading and thinking work, but I'll take that on.

They are in downloadable e-format here: http://www.anglicanlibrary.org/homilies/index.htm

Paidiske · Apr 28, 2016

shanethetheologian said:
They are in downloadable e-format here: http://www.anglicanlibrary.org/homilies/index.htm

Bless the Americans and their penchant for having good resources online (actually the C of E are pretty good too, especially for liturgical resources). This is one area where the Australian church is woeful.

Okay, arcangl, I guess those blog posts just moved up my to-do list...

However, it's now slightly after midnight and I need to be up for morning prayer, so I bid you both a good night.

everbecoming2007 · Apr 29, 2016

sonofedward said:
Recently I visited an Anglican cathedral and approached the Priestess and asked her how does anglicanism differ from roman catholicism? she replied '' we follow the bible''. She may have also been a lesbian.

I agree with much of what others have said, but want to add I hope that you're not just assuming she is a lesbian without any good reason. Appearance or other assumptions about what a lesbian looks, speaks, or acts like do not count as good reasons. Personally I recommend not discussing someone's sexuality among strangers especially when she only "may be" a lesbian, whatever that means.

Arcangl86 · Apr 29, 2016

everbecoming2007 said:
I agree with much of what others have said, but want to add I hope that you're not just assuming she is a lesbian without any good reason. Appearance or other assumptions about what a lesbian looks, speaks, or acts like do not count as good reasons. Personally I recommend not discussing someone's sexuality among strangers especially when she only "may be" a lesbian, whatever that means.

Part of why I suspect that this post was mostly an attack on the Anglican church.

Padres1969 · Apr 29, 2016

Arcangl86 said:
Part of why I suspect that this post was mostly an attack on the Anglican church.

Oh it was clearly an attack on Anglicanism. But frankly I think we've all done a pretty good job of refuting it.

concretecamper · May 3, 2016

Albion said:
"They" don't. Some Anglicans and some Anglican churches do. Others don't. In either case, the testimony of Scripture has made the decision for the individual or the church body.

Are you saying the Holy Spirit is fickle and provides different teaching to to some as compared to others? Or are you saying some people interpretation s are wrong. Or are you saying we really don't know. Just curious.

Paidiske · May 3, 2016

concretecamper said:
Are you saying the Holy Spirit is fickle and provides different teaching to to some as compared to others? Or are you saying some people interpretation s are wrong. Or are you saying we really don't know. Just curious.

Anglicanism has a very different culture around discerning what the Spirit teaches than Catholicism does. From what I can observe from the outside, when there is disagreement, Catholics tend to want to settle it with reference to a definitive authority. "The Magisterium teaches..." and there the matter is closed.

In contrast, when Anglicans disagree, we tend to say that clearly neither of us have the complete picture yet, and ongoing dialogue is necessary for our ongoing growth in wisdom. So - again to use the ministry of women as an example - some Anglicans accept this as of God, and some do not. But it is not our way to seek to excommunicate those with whom we disagree; we would rather walk together in our disagreement and seek to learn from and with one another.

This is not an easy path; it is often very costly, and inevitably it doesn't work for everybody. But it is, for me, one of the very great gifts of Anglicanism.

Arcangl86 · May 3, 2016

Paidiske said:
Anglicanism has a very different culture around discerning what the Spirit teaches than Catholicism does. From what I can observe from the outside, when there is disagreement, Catholics tend to want to settle it with reference to a definitive authority. "The Magisterium teaches..." and there the matter is closed.

In contrast, when Anglicans disagree, we tend to say that clearly neither of us have the complete picture yet, and ongoing dialogue is necessary for our ongoing growth in wisdom. So - again to use the ministry of women as an example - some Anglicans accept this as of God, and some do not. But it is not our way to seek to excommunicate those with whom we disagree; we would rather walk together in our disagreement and seek to learn from and with one another.

This is not an easy path; it is often very costly, and inevitably it doesn't work for everybody. But it is, for me, one of the very great gifts of Anglicanism.

I would like to just add that this depends on province as well. Forgive me for pointing this out, but the Church in Australia is unique in that it is closer to a federation of state churches then a unified church for Australia.

Paidiske · May 3, 2016

I was actually thinking of Anglicanism at a global level (eg. the results of the recent primates' meeting).

Arcangl86 · May 3, 2016

Paidiske said:
I was actually thinking of Anglicanism at a global level (eg. the results of the recent primates' meeting).

Fair point. Though the most recent meeting kind of contradicts your point. And even before that there were Primates who refused to recognize ++Schori because she was a woman. Though in general I think I would agree.

Paidiske · May 3, 2016

At the most recent meeting, the ultimate decision was that we walk together despite our differences... which was what I was thinking of.

It's not perfect; and yes, not everyone works within that ethos and there's been grumbling at either extreme, but I think on the whole it's a fair characterisation?

Arcangl86 · May 3, 2016

Paidiske said:
At the most recent meeting, the ultimate decision was that we walk together despite our differences... which was what I was thinking of.

It's not perfect; and yes, not everyone works within that ethos and there's been grumbling at either extreme, but I think on the whole it's a fair characterisation?

The ultimate decision was that we walk together, then they decided to "suspend" The Episcopal Church. The actions kind of disagreed with the sentiment expressed.

What is Anglican communions final authority in faith, morals? the Bible or The consensus of the day?

Episcopalian

Episcopalian

Priest

Newbie

Clara bonam audax

Priest

Newbie

Clara bonam audax

Priest

Clara bonam audax

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Episcopalian

Member of His Church

Clara bonam audax

Newbie

Clara bonam audax

Newbie

Clara bonam audax

Newbie

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