Evangelical vs. charismatic catholic

well.... technically, all Catholics are called to be evangelical
we are all called to reach out to others and show them the Faith

I think Lutheranism officially calls itself "Evangelical Catholicism"

other then Lutherans and as a general term, the phrase "Evangelical Catholic" is not something I am familiar with

Evangelical means given to spreading the gospel. All Catholics are called to be thus. If they aren't, there is a problem.

Charismatic means believing in and practicing the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit. Not every Catholic is Charismatic (especially in regards to the speaking in tongues).

Even in Protestant world, there are PLENTY of Evangelicals who are not Charismatic, by which I mean that there are plenty of Evangelical that believe the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased (usually at the closing of canon).

It's a bit abusive to refer to the etymology or old usage of the word "Evangelical." It has a distinct modern meaning and that needs to be addressed. That's what Evangelical in "Evangelical Catholic" usually means.

Theatreguy18 said:

hey my brothers and sisters in Christ uv been thinking about it and what is the difference between charismatic and evangelical Catholics I wanna know uv always considered them the same thing

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in my experience the difference between Traditional, Charismatic, and Evangelical Catholics is that the latter two are more focused on the gifts and their uses than they are on our Lord Jesus.

Yes, it's wonderful to have gifts, etc. but both gifts and evangelism are for down here. and neither one prepares us for heaven or reminds us of the need to also watch for the Lord's return.

pdudgeon said:

in my experience the difference between Traditional, Charismatic, and Evangelical Catholics is that the latter two are more focused on the gifts and their uses than they are on our Lord Jesus.

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I don't think that's a fair representation. Evangelical Catholics and Charismatic Catholics tend to have the "intimate relationship with Christ" that the New Evangelization encourages, moreso than traditional Catholics.

Cappadocious said:

It's a bit abusive to refer to the etymology or old usage of the word "Evangelical." It has a distinct modern meaning and that needs to be addressed. That's what Evangelical in "Evangelical Catholic" usually means.

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Then you have George Weigel, who wrote a book titled 'Evangelical Catholicism'. Also an article in First Things with the following URL:
Evangelical Catholicism | George Weigel

I would maintain that a discussion of 'Evangelical Catholicism' needs to include Weigel's meaning. And of course how that compares and contrasts with Evangelical Protestantism.

For my part I see a rough substantial but by no means complete overlap between Traditional Catholicism, Charismatic Catholicism, and Evangelical Catholicism. I can fit in all three, although not every Catholic would.

chevyontheriver said:

Then you have George Weigel, who wrote a book titled 'Evangelical Catholicism'. Also an article in First Things with the following URL:
Evangelical Catholicism | George Weigel

I would maintain that a discussion of 'Evangelical Catholicism' needs to include Weigel's meaning. And of course how that compares and contrasts with Evangelical Protestantism.

For my part I see a rough substantial but by no means complete overlap between Traditional Catholicism, Charismatic Catholicism, and Evangelical Catholicism. I can fit in all three, although not every Catholic would.

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But where does he demonstrate any of this?

Cappadocious said:

But where does he demonstrate any of this?

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You read the First Things article already?

If that is tldr, here is a summary by Jeff Mirus:
Evangelical Catholicism: George Weigel’s Vision of Catholic Reform

chevyontheriver said:

You read the First Things article already?

If that is tldr, here is a summary by Jeff Mirus:
Evangelical Catholicism: George Weigel’s Vision of Catholic Reform

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Ok but where does he demonstrate any of this?

Cappadocious said:

Ok but where does he demonstrate any of this?

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What do you mean by 'demonstrate'?

chevyontheriver said:

What do you mean by 'demonstrate'?

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Put forward an account of why his interpretation of evangelical Catholicism is better than others.

Cappadocious said:

Put forward an account of why his interpretation of evangelical Catholicism is better than others.

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I would think that merely by being George Weigel his interpretation is in the running for being definitive. You know who he is, don't you? Not that it is automatically definitive, but that the biographer of John Paul II, who wrote the following books, has some standing in defining 'Evangelical Catholicism':

• Evangelical Catholicism: Deep Reform in the 21st-Century Catholic Church, Basic Books, 2013, ISBN 978-0-465-02768-2
• The End and the Beginning: Pope John Paul II–The Victory of Freedom, the Last Years, the Legacy, Doubleday, 2010, ISBN 978-0-385-52479-7
• Against the Grain: Christianity and Democracy, War and Peace, Crossroad, 2008, ISBN 0-8245-2448-9.
• Faith, Reason, and the War Against Jihadism: A Call to Action, Doubleday, 2007, ISBN 978-0-385-52378-3.
• God's Choice: Pope Benedict XVI and the Future of the Catholic Church, Harper Collins, 2005, ISBN 0-06-621331-2.
• The Cube and the Cathedral: Europe, America, and Politics Without God, Basic Books, 2005, ISBN 0-465-09266-7.
• Letters to a Young Catholic, Basic Books, 2004, ISBN 0-465-09262-4.
• The Courage To Be Catholic: Crisis, Reform, and the Future of the Church, Basic Books, 2002, ISBN 0-465-09260-8.
• The Truth of Catholicism: Ten Controversies Explored, Harper Collins, 2001, ISBN 0-06-621330-4.
• Witness to Hope: The Biography of Pope John Paul II, Harper Collins, 1999, ISBN 0-06-018793-X.
• Soul of the World: Notes on the Future of Public Catholicism, Eerdmans, 1996, ISBN 0802842070.
• The Final Revolution: The Resistance Church and the Collapse of Communism, Oxford University Press, 1992, ISBN 0-19-507160-3.
• Just War and the Gulf War, Ethics and Public Policy Center, 1991, ISBN 0-89633-166-0.
• Freedom and Its Discontents: Catholicism Confronts Modernity, Ethics and Public Policy Center, 1991, ISBN 0-89633-158-X.
• American Interests, American Purpose: Moral Reasoning and U.S. Foreign Policy, Praeger Publishers, 1989, ISBN 0-275-93335-0.
• Catholicism and the Renewal of American Democracy, Paulist Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8091-3043-2.
• Tranquillitas Ordinis: The Present Failure and Future Promise of American Catholic Thought on War and Peace, Oxford University Press, 1987, ISBN 0-19-504193-3.

One does not have typically have standing to define, except in the case of stipulative definitions which are a moot point.

I contend that definitions depend first on use and function, this is because use is concrete and stipulation is abstract, the abstract is less grounded than the concrete, and concreteness is an intuitively good standard for priority.

The use of evangelical Catholicism practically denotes 70s "contemporary music," a focus on crafting introspective personal narratives following a typical structure, feeling ones feelings instead of simply feeling, an "educated plain reading" view of the church writings where a properly educated a inducted person has transparent access to their meaning, anxiety disorders, an elevation of mundane daily actions to the realm of "intentional living," late-to-the-party Christian facsimiles of popular culture elements, etc.

Cappadocious said:

One does not have typically have standing to define, except in the case of stipulative definitions which are a moot point.

I contend that definitions depend first on use and function, this is because use is concrete and stipulation is abstract, the abstract is less grounded than the concrete, and concreteness is an intuitively good standard for priority.

The use of evangelical Catholicism practically denotes 70s "contemporary music," a focus on crafting introspective personal narratives following a typical structure, feeling ones feelings instead of simply feeling, an "educated plain reading" view of the church writings where a properly educated a inducted person has transparent access to their meaning, anxiety disorders, an elevation of mundane daily actions to the realm of "intentional living," late-to-the-party Christian facsimiles of popular culture elements, etc.

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Where do you demonstrate this? What is your account of why this interpretation of evangelical Catholicism is better than others.

chevyontheriver said:

Where do you demonstrate this? What is your account of why this interpretation of evangelical Catholicism is better than others.

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These are common elements of evangelical Protestantism, this is known by many here via direct experience. Evangelical Catholicism, as our trad catholics can tell us, is practically just the incorporation of these common elements at varying levels.

I call upon the ex-evangelicals and traditional catholics to corroborate via accounts of direct experience.

Cappadocious said:

These are common elements of evangelical Protestantism, this is known by many here via direct experience. Evangelical Catholicism, as our trad catholics can tell us, is practically just the incorporation of these common elements at varying levels.

I call upon the ex-evangelicals and traditional catholics to corroborate via accounts of direct experience.

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I await that, to see if your definition, Weigel's definition, or some other carries the day.

Cappadocious said:

One does not have typically have standing to define, except in the case of stipulative definitions which are a moot point.

I contend that definitions depend first on use and function, this is because use is concrete and stipulation is abstract, the abstract is less grounded than the concrete, and concreteness is an intuitively good standard for priority.

The use of evangelical Catholicism practically denotes 70s "contemporary music," a focus on crafting introspective personal narratives following a typical structure, feeling ones feelings instead of simply feeling, an "educated plain reading" view of the church writings where a properly educated a inducted person has transparent access to their meaning, anxiety disorders, an elevation of mundane daily actions to the realm of "intentional living," late-to-the-party Christian facsimiles of popular culture elements, etc.

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Evangelical Catholicism has absolutely nothing to do with style of music. Wherever did you get that notion? In general, contemporary music is more the norm in Catholic churches today, but not because of Evangelicalsim -- more to do with Vatican 2. But anyway, a person can prefer Chant and still be and Evangelical Catholic.

chevyontheriver said:

Then you have George Weigel, who wrote a book titled 'Evangelical Catholicism'. Also an article in First Things with the following URL:
Evangelical Catholicism | George Weigel

I would maintain that a discussion of 'Evangelical Catholicism' needs to include Weigel's meaning. And of course how that compares and contrasts with Evangelical Protestantism.

For my part I see a rough substantial but by no means complete overlap between Traditional Catholicism, Charismatic Catholicism, and Evangelical Catholicism. I can fit in all three, although not every Catholic would.

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Ah, and then there is Vice President Mike Pence, who was raised a Catholic, become an evangelical in college, and has called himself an 'born-again, evangelical Catholic'. For a while he still expressed interest in becoming a priest and worked in youth ministry in a Catholic parish. He ended up attending an evangelical megachurch. Here's what I think happened. I think Pence had a deep but only cultural Catholicism where he only encountered Jesus first among the evangelicals. Why couldn't he have awakened in the Catholic Church? Oh well. So he finds himself an evangelical with this deep cultural Catholicism that takes a long time to fade away. He calls it being an 'evangelical Catholic' until it finally fades away. He doesn't call himself 'evangelical Catholic' any longer. It was just a transitional phrase with him. He is now a former Catholic. Watching the Vice Presidential debates, if I had to guess which of the two was the Catholic though, I would have picked Pence over Kaine.