Two things. The Greek word "kai" is not understood as starting a new argument about a different thing. If anything, it joins a second argument to one already made concerning the same manner.
Second, the Greek word "de" is not always understood as a strong contrasting word, like our English "but." It is, in fact, the same word used in the genealogies in the New Testament "Abraham begat Isaac, and [de] Isaac begat Jacob, and [de]..." When it is used in a negative contrasting sense, it is not at the beginning of the sentence.
Therefore, this argument does not hold up under scrutiny, as the Greek words used and their usage within the text specifically support continuity of thought, not contrast of thought.
What does all this have to do with the argument that the writer of Hebrews is making?
And, your also making up an argument, that I'm simply not making.
I'm talking about how “and,” and “but” are used here in Hebrews.
You said that God could only fully express Himself through a man, which is the only sense (according to you) that Jesus is in any way more "Logos" than the earth. But if God can make a donkey speak, he could express Himself in any way he chooses. Is it not written "If they remain silent, the rocks will cry out?"
I'm talking about the order of things, how God made the earth rocks, they don't fully express Him, whether He can make them talk, or not, has nothing to do with anything, I'm talking about how He made them to be. How many times have you heard of the earth speaking, or gardening, or spending time with it's friends?
Animals are living, made as man was made. Do you see rocks singing out? Rocks do not fully express God. I don't want to get sidetracked into one of these debates again, surely, you must know what my point was. This was my comment: “
It's not the same, for one, the earth is an object, and are not a full image of God. God does not put His mind, His character, the expression of Himself, the image of Himself in the earth, but in a man He can.” Then you said: “
So you're saying an all powerful God is confined to expressing all of His divine attributes only in a man?” Then I said “
No, not saying that. What God is like is seen in His creation, but cannot express as a man can.” I am saying, as God has made the earth, it does not fully express God. Your trying to turn it into something I obviously was not saying, if you follow, and keep it in the context of all that I was saying, for I said “
No, not saying that.” Then you turn it around and argue that's what I was saying.
Clearly, Man, and rocks do not express God in the same way, God made man with a different purpose, and man was to rule over, and man was to be in the image of God, not rocks in the image of God!
As has already been shown from the Greek, your interpretation of this passage is completely warped. The Greek text and usage supports continuity of argument, not change and contrast.
Furthermore, the arguments are each supporting statements of the author's introduction of the book:
"but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
Undoubtedly you can see how the arguments relate to and affirm this introduction, in which the author of Hebrews declares that God created the the world through His Son.
Hebrews 1
5
For [gar] unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?
And [
kia]
again [palin], I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6
And/but [
de]
again [palin], when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7
And [
kia] of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8
But [
de] unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10
And [
kia], Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13
But [
de] to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
And all ya have to do is read Psalm 102 to confirm verse 10-12 are
not referring to the Father speaking to the Son. In fact it is the Son speaking to the Father. If you cant see this in Psalm 102, ...honestly, does this sound like the Father speaking to the Son, to you?
Psalm 102
Hear my prayer, O Lord,
And let my cry come to You.
Do not hide Your face from me in the day of my trouble;
Incline Your ear to me;
In the day that I call, answer me speedily...
Who are we trying to kid?
You could tell me all day long verses 10-12 refer to the Son, but I can read for myself.
Not every word Jesus said is a "dark saying." John didn't seem to think that Jesus' statement here was a dark saying, but that it was straightforward. He was literally talking about them destroying a temple and Him raising it again in 3 days. They were just confused about which temple He was talking about.
Other than Jesus' own words? No. Don't need more than that.
21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said. The disciple did not fully understand everything Jesus said either, Jesus would often take them aside and explain it to them.
