What would you say?

fatboys · Feb 12, 2016

Aryeh Jay said:
I would tell him…

“Joseph Smith Jr., what have I told you about hanging out with stranger resurrected beings! Get back to your chores!”

That is like page 6 of the BOM. Don’t quote me on the page #, it has been a while.

Lol

fatboys · Feb 12, 2016

So the consensus is he was having a psychotic event. Suppose you were the 13-14 year old person that experienced these things.

LoAmmi · Feb 12, 2016

fatboys said:
So the consensus is he was having a psychotic event. Suppose you were the 13-14 year old person that experienced these things.

At that age, I would hope my parents would take me to be examined. I would likely have wanted to be examined.

Albion · Feb 12, 2016

fatboys said:
So the consensus is he was having a psychotic event. Suppose you were the 13-14 year old person that experienced these things.

Just a minute. In your OP, you didn't say that these things happened. You said the boy told a story about them having happened or claimed that they happened.

"...he told you about an event that happened to him the night before. You tell him he has to tell you you. He said in was told not to tell anyone. You being a minister you told him who better to tell. Finally he stats to tell you what lead up to it. That as you knew he was looking for the right church. You told him that you knew...He told you that yesterday morning he got up early and went into a very secluded spot...."

If we knew for a fact that they had happened, it might alter our responses.

Tigger45 · Feb 12, 2016

It would be hard enough to believe coming from any individual but especially hard if that boy had a history of shenanigans.

Robban · Feb 13, 2016

fatboys said:
Okay since few mainstream Christians answered let's take it a step further. Let's suppose that a couple of years went by and you happen to run into him at town and you asked him about his experience he had had. The only thing he could tell you was that it happened just as he said it did but nothing else since that time. You ask him again are you sure it happened? He said it did as sure as he was standing there. Although you watched him grow into quite a hard working young man you were still concerned over this event. The next year you once again ran into him along the road to town and you started to talk again what he had been doing. He was excited to tell you that he had had another experience one night in his bedroom as he was praying to ask God if he had fallen out of favor with him. Shortly after he had started to pray his room begin to fill with light until it was brighter than at noon day. All of a sudden a being appeared within the light. The being addressed him by name and told him what his name was. He said hat he had lived many many years ago and that his father had given him a record that contained the dealings God had had with his people that covered about a thousand years.
Again I want you to believe that you knew this young man to be honest and hard working. Hat he was as normal a person that you had known for a young man to be his age.
What would you tell him?

I would not be able to prove he did not have this experience.

I would probably tell him to keep it under his hat.

Just keep it to himself.

ViaCrucis · Feb 13, 2016

fatboys said:
Okay since few mainstream Christians answered let's take it a step further. Let's suppose that a couple of years went by and you happen to run into him at town and you asked him about his experience he had had. The only thing he could tell you was that it happened just as he said it did but nothing else since that time. You ask him again are you sure it happened? He said it did as sure as he was standing there. Although you watched him grow into quite a hard working young man you were still concerned over this event. The next year you once again ran into him along the road to town and you started to talk again what he had been doing. He was excited to tell you that he had had another experience one night in his bedroom as he was praying to ask God if he had fallen out of favor with him. Shortly after he had started to pray his room begin to fill with light until it was brighter than at noon day. All of a sudden a being appeared within the light. The being addressed him by name and told him what his name was. He said hat he had lived many many years ago and that his father had given him a record that contained the dealings God had had with his people that covered about a thousand years.
Again I want you to believe that you knew this young man to be honest and hard working. Hat he was as normal a person that you had known for a young man to be his age.
What would you tell him?

Such experiences as this individual was having would be, at best, delusional and at worst diabolical, and I'd recommend seeing a well trained medical professional as well as receive counseling from a well trained pastor who would--likewise--recommend medical care and treatment.

This is all assuming that the individual in question wasn't just making things up in order to get attention, which would be a valid concern as well.

I would have absolutely no reason to believe anything that this individual was saying.

-CryptoLutheran

fatboys · Feb 14, 2016

Tigger45 said:
It would be hard enough to believe coming from any individual but especially hard if that boy had a history of shenanigans.

Let's suppose that he was know to be sober young man who was serious but was normal young boy so to speak

Chesterton · Feb 14, 2016

Muhammad was once a normal, serious young businessman.

fatboys · Feb 14, 2016

Chesterton said:
Muhammad was once a normal, serious young businessman.

I really cannot reply to anyone in the thread. You can continue to make your thoughts known but keep in mind the op

Albion · Feb 14, 2016

fatboys said:
Let's suppose that he was know to be sober young man who was serious but was normal young boy so to speak

Right. But his tale still sounds like something he made up or borrowed from somewhere else.

(This reply is made to the OP as modified by the above comment. I see now that you've added some other facts in your "step further" post.)

LoAmmi · Feb 14, 2016

Let me put it this way to you. In the Torah, the people are told that there is a way to determine if someone is a prophet or not. We are not simply supposed to believe every Tom, Dick, or Shlomo that comes along just because they say they've experienced something. In my view, it is more likely that they had some kind of either medical or psychological problem that has caused this. Wouldn't you agree that in all the of the world, less people have had true experiences than those who have had experiences brought on by a non-divine source?

Robban · Feb 14, 2016

LoAmmi said:
Let me put it this way to you. In the Torah, the people are told that there is a way to determine if someone is a prophet or not. We are not simply supposed to believe every Tom, Dick, or Shlomo that comes along just because they say they've experienced something. In my view, it is more likely that they had some kind of either medical or psychological problem that has caused this. Wouldn't you agree that in all the of the world, less people have had true experiences than those who have had experiences brought on by a non-divine source?

Who cares anyway,
I would not follow anyone on the grounds that they had an experience.

If that is what the OP is getting at.
He did not mention prophet, but most seem to think he has Joseph Smith
in his sights.
Whichever way, who cares.

Robban · Feb 14, 2016

Sometimes it goes awfuly wrong as in this tragic event.

seashale76 · Feb 14, 2016

Over the centuries in the Church people have been counseled again, and again, and again to ignore their dreams and visions be they good or bad. They can easily lead to spiritual delusion. In fact, it is never considered a sin to ignore dreams and visions, even if you believe them to be Godly and especially when the source is obviously not Godly. I think that most of us, on reflection, can honestly say that our nightly dreams are a manifestation of what we've thought about during our waking hours. They do not necessarily have any mysterious meaning or significance to be interpreted. It is actually spiritually dangerous to give these types of things too much attention. Always turn to God and give Him the glory. Always be mindful that you are a sinner in need of repentance. Also, visions could, indeed, be an indicator of hallucinations that require getting looked at by a healthcare provider.

Here are some prayers and quotations regarding this topic:

The wicked one, on the watch, carried me off as booty as I lazily
slept. He led my mind into error; he plundered my spirit and snatched
away The wealth of Thy grace, this arch robber.
So raise me up, as I am fallen, and summon me, Saviour,
Thou who dost will that all men be saved. ~Kontakia of St. Romanos, A Prayer.

O Lord our God, in Whom we believe and Whose Name we invoke above every name, grant us preparing for sleep relaxation of soul and body, and keep us from all dreams and dark pleasures. Stop the rushing of passions, and quench the burning of bodily tensions. Grant us to live chastely in word and act, that we may live a life of heroic virtue and not fall away from Thy promised blessings. For Thou art blessed for ever. Amen. ~Prayer- Jordanville Prayer book

Even if an angel should indeed appear to you, do not receive him
but humiliate yourself, saying, 'I am not worthy to see an angel,
for I am a sinner.' ~Apophthegmata Patrum

We should zealously cultivate watchfulness, my brethren; and when,
our mind purified in Christ Jesus, we are exalted by the vision it
confers, we should review our sins and our former life, so that
shattered and humbled at the thought of them we may never lose the
help of Jesus Christ our God in the invisible battle. ~St. Hesychius the Presbyter

Even a pious person is not immune to spiritual sickness if he does
not have a wise guide -- either a living person or a spiritual
writer. This sickness is called _prelest_, or spiritual delusion,
imagining oneself to be near to God and to the realm of the divine
and supernatural. Even zealous ascetics in monasteries are
sometimes subject to this delusion, but of course, laymen who are
zealous in external struggles (podvigi) undergo it much more
frequently. Surpassing their acquaintances in struggles of prayer
and fasting, they imagine that they are seers of divine visions,
or at least of dreams inspired by grace. In every event of their
lives, they see special intentional directions from God or their
guardian angel. And then they start imagining that they are God's
elect, and often try to foretell the future. The Holy Fathers
armed themselves against nothing so fiercely as against this
sickness -- prelest. ~Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky

"The demons have also the following trick. They cry out the names of those whom they know to have none of the merits of holiness and to possess none of the fruits of the Spirit. They pretend to be burnt up by the merits of such people and to take flight from the bodies of the possessed.

Deuteronomy has this to say about such persons: 'If a prophet should arise among you or a man claiming visionary dreams, and if he foretells a sign and a portent, and if what he says should actually happen, and if he should say to you, "Let us go and follow strange gods who are unknown to you and let us serve them," do not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. For the Lord your God is putting you to the test, bringing out into the open whether or not you love Him with all your heart and with all your should (Deuteronomy 13: 1 - 3).

And in the gospel he says this: 'Fake Christs and fake prophets will rise up and they will perform great signs and wonders so that if possible even the chosen will be led into error' (Matthew 24:24)." ~REF:St. John Cassian, "Conferences," - (Trans Colm Luibheid, New York: Paulist Press, 1985), pp. 174 - 176

smaneck · Feb 15, 2016

fatboys said:
Okay since few mainstream Christians answered let's take it a step further. Let's suppose that a couple of years went by and you happen to run into him at town and you asked him about his experience he had had. The only thing he could tell you was that it happened just as he said it did but nothing else since that time. You ask him again are you sure it happened? He said it did as sure as he was standing there. Although you watched him grow into quite a hard working young man you were still concerned over this event. The next year you once again ran into him along the road to town and you started to talk again what he had been doing. He was excited to tell you that he had had another experience one night in his bedroom as he was praying to ask God if he had fallen out of favor with him. Shortly after he had started to pray his room begin to fill with light until it was brighter than at noon day. All of a sudden a being appeared within the light. The being addressed him by name and told him what his name was. He said hat he had lived many many years ago and that his father had given him a record that contained the dealings God had had with his people that covered about a thousand years.
Again I want you to believe that you knew this young man to be honest and hard working. Hat he was as normal a person that you had known for a young man to be his age.
What would you tell him?

The problem with visions and what not, is they are only evidence for the one who directly experiences them. But if someone were to make a claim to prophethood, my inclination would be to ask what God had revealed to him. If I 'hear' the voice of God in what he says, I might be inclined to believe him, otherwise I would hope he gets help.

BigDaddy4 · Feb 15, 2016

fatboys said:
If this event happened to a young boy that you knew and liked and thought a lot of what would you feel him?

To quote the beloved Yogi Berra: "It's like deja vu all over again."

AionPhanes · Feb 15, 2016

I wouldn't have enough information to come to any real conclusions as to what, if anything , took place but I would suggest that he tell his parents and school counselors.

What would you say?

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