Wesleyan (holiness) living in a non-weslyan congregation

Kersh

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I was raised in the UMC (my parents were both UMC pastors). When I met my wife, I started attending my current church, which is non-denominational in name, but Baptist in theology. Though I have always identified more with Wesleyan (the person, not the denomination) theology, for the last couple years, I have been increasingly drawn towards the Holiness movement. But, at the same time, I love the community of my local church and have no plans to leave it, even if I don't always agree with some of its theological positions. Any suggestions on growing in the Wesleyan tradition of holiness outside of a Wesleyan congregation?
 

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Sorry you aren't getting responses. It may be because we don't have many folks here in the holiness tradition(s).

You an certainly, on a personal level, read and study holiness traditions and seek holiness in your own life. There probably isn't much you can do in the context of your non-denom/Baptist church that wouldn't look like you are trying to promote doctrines that conflict with the doctrines of the church.
 
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Maid Marie

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I was raised in the UMC (my parents were both UMC pastors). When I met my wife, I started attending my current church, which is non-denominational in name, but Baptist in theology. Though I have always identified more with Wesleyan (the person, not the denomination) theology, for the last couple years, I have been increasingly drawn towards the Holiness movement. But, at the same time, I love the community of my local church and have no plans to leave it, even if I don't always agree with some of its theological positions. Any suggestions on growing in the Wesleyan tradition of holiness outside of a Wesleyan congregation?
I would begin by reading anything by holiness writers such as: William Greathouse, Tom Oord, Diane Leclerc, Mark Maddix, Mildred Wynkoop, Al Truesdale and Ray Dunning.

And some podcast sermon suggestions can be found here: http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php/13298-Podcast-Sermons
 
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Kersh

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I would begin by reading anything by holiness writers such as: William Greathouse, Tom Oord, Diane Leclerc, Mark Maddix, Mildred Wynkoop, Al Truesdale and Ray Dunning.

And some podcast sermon suggestions can be found here: http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php/13298-Podcast-Sermons

Thanks for the response. I was beginning to think that maybe I posted in the wrong forum.

Last summer, I took my family to a camp that my wife had gone to as a child. The camp, at one time, was run by the UMC, but is now predominantly non-denominational, but mostly attended by Wesleyans, Free Methodists, and Nazarenes. I had been struggling a lot with the thought that there is really not much to distinguish Christians from the rest of the world, other than relatively superficial things. I found that the evangelists at this camp really talked a lot about not just "getting saved", but allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us to be more like Jesus. Prior to that, I had associated the Holiness Movement with a series of arbitrary rules that might make Christians different, but only in a superficial way. At camp, there was a fair amount of talk about that, and how holiness was not achieved by following rules designed to distance us from the world. Rather, the focus was more on expecting and allowing the Holy Spirit to make use genuinely more loving, compassionate, ethical, and moral people. That message resonated with me more than anything I have heard in Christian teaching in a long time.
 
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LaSorcia

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I was raised in the UMC (my parents were both UMC pastors). When I met my wife, I started attending my current church, which is non-denominational in name, but Baptist in theology. Though I have always identified more with Wesleyan (the person, not the denomination) theology, for the last couple years, I have been increasingly drawn towards the Holiness movement. But, at the same time, I love the community of my local church and have no plans to leave it, even if I don't always agree with some of its theological positions. Any suggestions on growing in the Wesleyan tradition of holiness outside of a Wesleyan congregation?

The way I would do it is to do what I felt/thought was right and live it out in my faith community. If folks asked me about it, I would share, but just be a living epistle otherwise.
 
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Maid Marie

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Thanks for the response. I was beginning to think that maybe I posted in the wrong forum.

Last summer, I took my family to a camp that my wife had gone to as a child. The camp, at one time, was run by the UMC, but is now predominantly non-denominational, but mostly attended by Wesleyans, Free Methodists, and Nazarenes. I had been struggling a lot with the thought that there is really not much to distinguish Christians from the rest of the world, other than relatively superficial things. I found that the evangelists at this camp really talked a lot about not just "getting saved", but allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us to be more like Jesus. Prior to that, I had associated the Holiness Movement with a series of arbitrary rules that might make Christians different, but only in a superficial way. At camp, there was a fair amount of talk about that, and how holiness was not achieved by following rules designed to distance us from the world. Rather, the focus was more on expecting and allowing the Holy Spirit to make use genuinely more loving, compassionate, ethical, and moral people. That message resonated with me more than anything I have heard in Christian teaching in a long time.
The CotN of my youth was like that - too much emphasis on the rules. But starting with the mass publication of John Wesley's books in the 1960s, people became more aware of how he viewed holiness vs the American Holiness Movement of the 1800s. The AHM was the one that emphasized the rules. Over time, especially with Mildred Bangs Wynkoop's teachings and writings, the tide started to shift to more of what you experienced at church camp. The books that I recommended are that kind of theology - "Wesleyan Holiness" and not the AHM type.
 
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Kersh

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Do you remember the names of the evangelists?

The one I enjoyed the most was Steve DeNeff, who is the pastor of College Church at IWU. The other was Steve Manley, who I believe is a Nazarene pastor out of Kentucky.
 
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Maid Marie

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The one I enjoyed the most was Steve DeNeff, who is the pastor of College Church at IWU. The other was Steve Manley, who I believe is a Nazarene pastor out of Kentucky.
I'm not familiar with Steve DeNeff. But Steven Manley is extremely well known and popular in the Nazarene world.
 
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Kersh

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I'm not familiar with Steve DeNeff. But Steven Manley is extremely well known and popular in the Nazarene world.

DeNeff is a Wesleyan pastor. In addition to his messages at camp, I have downloaded some of his messages in podcast format. From what I've listened to so far, he seems to focus on the need for us to change at a fundamental and spiritual level; if we allow the Holy Spirit to get in us, change us, let us die to ourselves, then we can become the types of people that God calls us to be. During, a recent sermon series that I listened to online, he talked about the fact that while the church is having less and less influence in America, we need to live out lives that are more civil, more ethical, more loving, more pure, more loyal, etc., than mainstream society. In his view (and I agree), speaking the truth doesn't mean a whole lot to a society that would marginalize us unless our lives are making the truth seem attractive.
 
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actionsub

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GraceSeeker

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I have been increasingly drawn towards the Holiness movement. But, at the same time, I love the community of my local church and have no plans to leave it, even if I don't always agree with some of its theological positions. Any suggestions on growing in the Wesleyan tradition of holiness outside of a Wesleyan congregation?

Sure. There are lots of campmeetings that are unrelated to any local congregation that continue to meet each summer. This is where the holinessness movement originated and where it continues to exist in exactly the forum you seem to be looking for. Also, just like in the original movement, many of these campmeetings become communities of people who gather together as much for the community and fellowship they create and nurture as anything else.

I don't know where you live, and I certainly don't know all of the various campmeetings that exist but two that I've personally attended and found to be positive and spiritually enriching experiences are the Beulah Holiness Camp in Eldorado, IL and Wilmore Camp Meeting (associated with Asbury College and Asbury Seminary) in Wilmore, KY. A source of more information might be The Holiness Camp Meeting Directory.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Thanks for the response. I was beginning to think that maybe I posted in the wrong forum.

No, you're in the right place. Just that some of us aren't as active online as other forums, or even as we used to be ourselves. Hope you've gotten enough information to help lead you to find what you're looking for. Blessings on your journey.
 
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Dave-W

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I found that the evangelists at this camp really talked a lot about not just "getting saved", but allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us to be more like Jesus. Prior to that, I had associated the Holiness Movement with a series of arbitrary rules that might make Christians different, but only in a superficial way. At camp, there was a fair amount of talk about that, and how holiness was not achieved by following rules designed to distance us from the world. Rather, the focus was more on expecting and allowing the Holy Spirit to make use genuinely more loving, compassionate, ethical, and moral people. That message resonated with me more than anything I have heard in Christian teaching in a long time.
That is because it is the TRUTH.

Sanctification (which is what was being talked about) makes people from other faith streams (like calvinism) rather uneasy because it requires something from US. So it gets ignored. It requires us to work WITH God to change us - with HIM via the Holy Spirit doing the heavy lifting.

Dr Derek Prince once said (and I believe he was quoting Wesley) "God has His part and we have our part. God WILL NOT do our part and we CANNOT do God's part."

All of the Apostles' writings are for us to understand how to GROW UP into God's will for our lives.
 
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John Johnston

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One thing you could do is get on the main Nazarene web site. There is an area you can sign up for online studies. I took the Wesley course and it was really good. There are others I have not taken. There is a holiness study that I am not sure if it is there or in book form.
Here is a link to one study. You will have to register and then you can take the course.

http://thediscipleshipplace.org/index.php?option=com_studies&view=curriculum&id=45&Itemid=38&lang=en
There are other studies if you go to the menu in the upper right corner of the page.

Good luck.
John
 
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