If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

I am coming to the absolute conclusion that Sabbatarians do not believe the writings of Paul unless, of course, they can twist them to meet their preconceived ideas. It is so evident that the Torah has been abrogated yet these people will ignore positive proof presented to them. We know from Paul's writings that the 10 commandments were temporary laws given only to the Israelites at Sinai where the Israelites signed a pact with God to keep the Torah. The pact was broken by the Israelites over and over, so God finally said enough is enough and did away with the pact and His promises. Simple isn't it, but no we still get all the lame excuses that either cannot be proved or are twisted beyond belief.

Bob S said:

I am coming to the absolute conclusion that Sabbatarians do not believe the writings of Paul unless, of course, they can twist them to meet their preconceived ideas. It is so evident that the Torah has been abrogated yet these people will ignore positive proof presented to them. We know from Paul's writings that the 10 commandments were temporary laws given only to the Israelites at Sinai where the Israelites signed a pact with God to keep the Torah. The pact was broken by the Israelites over and over, so God finally said enough is enough and did away with the pact and His promises. Simple isn't it, but no we still get all the lame excuses that either cannot be proved or are twisted beyond belief.

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Unless they are keeping it as akin to a tradition and don't feel bound to it in that effort, I agree that to conclude one must keep the Sabbath one has to reject Paul's writings to the point of considering him not a legitimate Apostle of Jesus. Basically they are equating the witness of Paul's conversion, the witness of the people who knew Paul and supported Paul, and the council of Jerusalem as fairy tales or outright lies. I've seen such twisted logic to try and keep a resemblance of "accepting" Paul's writings but making them say something that they don't say and verbal and logical gymnastics that would boggle the mind of many people reading the Bible.

Bob S said:

I am coming to the absolute conclusion that Sabbatarians do not believe the writings of Paul unless, of course, they can twist them to meet their preconceived ideas. It is so evident that the Torah has been abrogated yet these people will ignore positive proof presented to them. We know from Paul's writings that the 10 commandments were temporary laws given only to the Israelites at Sinai where the Israelites signed a pact with God to keep the Torah. The pact was broken by the Israelites over and over, so God finally said enough is enough and did away with the pact and His promises. Simple isn't it, but no we still get all the lame excuses that either cannot be proved or are twisted beyond belief.

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The same goes for Moses as it does for Paul when it comes to sabbatarians.

bugkiller

bugkiller said:

The same goes for Moses as it does for Paul when it comes to sabbatarians.

bugkiller

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Yep, concerning Moses some will insist that the Antediluvians had all the laws that Moses did. We know that is not true because God gave Noah every living thing to eat plus God explained why He gave the Israelis the Sabbath. It was for the remembrance of their escape out of bondage. Why would God give that command to anyone before Israel? They wer not in bondage in Egypt. We also know that man had plural wives. Evidently there was no law against Abraham having concubines and producing many children. We could find many reasons God had not revealed the old covenant to anyone before Israel.

Bob S said:

Yep, concerning Moses some will insist that the Antediluvians had all the laws that Moses did. We know that is not true because God gave Noah every living thing to eat plus God explained why He gave the Israelis the Sabbath. It was for the remembrance of their escape out of bondage. Why would God give that command to anyone before Israel? They wer not in bondage in Egypt. We also know that man had plural wives. Evidently there was no law against Abraham having concubines and producing many children. We could find many reasons God had not revealed the old covenant to anyone before Israel.

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They're so inconsistant in their proofs. I ask my SDA neighbor if he was a nudist. He ask why saying that doesn't make sense. I replied you claim the law was in the garden. I pointed him to -

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Gen 1

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Gen 2

Clothing didn't appear until after eating from the tree and they were kicked out of the Garden. Most people don't understand clothing at all.

My question was why do you call evil what God called good?

bugkiller

BobRyan said:

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Mark 7

8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.



Which of the Bible texts that you are ignoring above - gave you that idea??

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Wow! do you rewrite all those verses each tome? I bet you just paste them. Anyway, I love all the verses you copied and pasted or wrote. I do not ignore any of them, but you think you have discovered something that proves we have to keep Sabbath and none of the verses prove that. You would lose a debate if you hang your hat on all those verses. We have gone over all the verses you present and have proven they do not prove that Christians are under Torah law.

Lets take Mark 7:8 for instance. The commandment of God for Christians is not the Sabbath. Jesus kept the commandment of God and gave us a new commandment, love God with all your heart and your fellow man as I have loved you. That my friend didn't come from Torah. It came from our Savior and that is the command we are to abide by. 1Jn 3 tells us sin is transgression of the law and then he goes on to tell us what he means by the law. Here read it in verses 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. Amen and Amen! One of my favorite texts.

You would have us believe that transgression of the law is the Torah. Well, I believe John over you and your prophet. If you don't understand these simple texts then I don't know much more that can help you.

BobRyan said:

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus reminds the Jews that the Ten Commandments are the "Word of God". Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" gets this key detail right.



Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

"First commandment" in WHAT unit of LAW ?? The unit that includes the Sabbath.

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

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Honor your father... is part of the law of love as are all of the commands that concern morality. Sabbath was a ritual command given only to Israel. It was not given to their ancestors.

BobRyan said:

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.



Which of the Bible texts that you are ignoring above - gave you that idea??

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Why do you resort to condemnation and think none of your passages apply to you?

bugkiller

BobRyan said:

The mere QUOTE of the Bible in this post Feb 12, 2016 #971 is sufficient "cause" to give rise to strong objection to it.

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Huh?

bugkiller

BobRyan said:

The post will be added here since you seem to be unclear as to what it is.

===========================

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus reminds the Jews that the Ten Commandments are the "Word of God". Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" gets this key detail right.



Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

"First commandment" in WHAT unit of LAW ?? The unit that includes the Sabbath.

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10



Where is your idea of the "LAW of Love" ever written where Ex 20:12 is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise" in that list??

Do we need to "ignore all of scripture" for that written list - or shall we read the actual Bible for it??

I for one -choose the Bible.

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Yeah, right. hehehehe

bugkiller

BobRyan said:

And agreement in Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" with John 14:15

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You don't obey the law and you don't understand.
Romans chapter 6
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

BobRyan said:

Agreement accepted.

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Now that's grasping at non existent straws.

bugkiller