Should one look everywhere, or just within Christianity?
- Thread starter Mountain_Girl406
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I appreciate your comments, but it feels a bit circular. In other words, I'd first have to accept that the key parts of Christianity are more than stories to have faith, which would then allow me to believe in the key parts of Christianity.I'm not at the point where I see the narrative of Christianity as a move by God towards me.
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Alithis
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you8 assume too much ..perhaps you should first ask .."what is your move he waits for "
and sorry , you don't get to dictate god's message to mankind in the gospel -what i shared with you (gods move ) is the gospel . and there is only one acceptable response /
what you are doing is not searching to find and answer .. it is looking for somewhere to impose your own opinion ..
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What is the acceptable response?
I recognize it's the Gospel and I'm not trying to impose my own opinion, I'm just looking for some evidence that will tell me if it's true or a myth. That's what searching is all about.
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I just noticed your signature. .argue all you can, Jesus is still Lord.
There's probably something that strongly convinces you of that. Was it just hearing a summary of the Gospel message one time, or do you have more evidence for Jesus? If someone did want to argue, how would you make your case? Would you share an experience?
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Alithis
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would it make any difference ..if your heard as many experiences as you probably have over that many years and you chose to not be convinced by them .why would one more make any difference ?
you asked me ..after i said God has made his move ,what his move was .. So i told you .
in order to reconcile us to himself and free us from sin and the death it brings .. he became one of us. and having no sin was falsely accused and violently put to death as an innocent man .. i so doing he took our sin upon himself and died on our behalf that we do not "have" to .
he lay in the ground for three days and three nights and then ..becaseu he had no sin of his own the death had nothing to hold onto ..he overcame both sin and death and rose again fro the dead and lives forever more .. and he is able to save ANY who come to him and and put thier trust in him .
that is the move god has made towards us .
our response to that move is very simply .
we must repent (turn away from our own thoughts and actions and turn to God ..(the father) be baptised into the SON ..be buried with him by faith into his death that we might then rise up and live with him eternally
and we wil receive the promised holy Spirit as (in part) God acknowledgement of our salvation . and then we are reconciled to the fullness of the godhead .
this message of the Gospel contains in it the power of god to save those who will to believe.
his move -he became one of us died for us on the cross lay dead for 3 days & nights and rose again from the dead .
our response - repent , be baptised (die and live in christ)and receive the holy Ghost (eternal life)
the message is to all , but only those who respond to it will benefit from this good news .
those who reject it (refuse to repent) do not perish because they reject it ..they were perishing before they ever heard it . when they reject it. they simply continue to perish .
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I've done those things, been baptized, repented, etc. I don't know if I've received the Holy Spirit or not, but despite disbelief, I try to live as a Christian.
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As for experiences, well, that's where I guess discernment (which to me had to do with evidence ) comes in to play.
I have never had anything that could be called a religious experience, but I've heard the experiences of many who have, some Christian, some Muslim, some Pagan. They are all equal in their certainty that they have experienced the divine as they understand it. How do you discern the true ones?
I have never had anything that could be called a religious experience, but I've heard the experiences of many who have, some Christian, some Muslim, some Pagan. They are all equal in their certainty that they have experienced the divine as they understand it. How do you discern the true ones?
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Mountain,
Not everyone who identifies with the Christian faith does so due to any kind of "religious experience." I didn't. And after 30 years of being a Christian, I still haven't encountered any kind of empirical evidence of a divine presence--that is, if I don't count meeting my wife
. No voice from Heaven, no starry-eyed visions, no mystical translations into the ether realm. In fact, when I read the New Testament, I don't see that the writers indicated in any way that these kinds of things would be normative (despite what a few various Christian voices through the centuries have attempted to say otherwise.)2PhiloVoid
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It's interesting to hear that. Most Christians I know credit some sense of the gift of the Holy Spirit. ..some sensing of the presence of their God.Mountain,
Not everyone who identifies with the Christian faith does so due to any kind of "religious experience." I didn't. And after 30 years of being a Christian, I still haven't encountered any kind of empirical evidence of a divine presence--that is, if I don't count meeting my wife
2PhiloVoid
In the absence of that, how does one choose between one faith vs. another? That's where I was going, I think, with the OP. If one is going to become a faithful member of a religion without personal relevarion, should they only look at the evidence for, and teachings of, various branches of Christianity, or consider other religious paths? Most in this situation seem to just go with the faith of their birth.
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Yes, many do. I'll admit that at the beginning of my faith, I had a few positive emotional responses to the things I was learning at the time, but I can't say that those feelings, however spine-tingling they occasionally seemed, were specifically otherworldly.
That really depends on what you're drawn to aesthetically. In some respects, the "choice" of faith, like that of choosing a mate or significant other, may be made up of one's attraction to one person (or entity) over another. For instance, during the process of my becoming Christian, I also read about other World Religions and their leading figures, but I quickly found that I was really only impressed with Jesus. Moreover, it seemed that the Christian religious texts reflected a much more historically situated setting, making it feel more real, whereas the other religious writings were more or less just collections of proverbial sayings, sublime articulations, and/or religious commentaries [i.e. with little or no historical setting].
But again, the "choice" ultimately comes down to what you're drawn to.
As a philosophy major, and after having studied the other religions in various classroom settings, I personally don't perceive that they offer anything of equal or greater spiritual/social value than does Christianity. You can look at the other World Religions if you so wish, there is some interesting stuff there ... but just try to stay awake when doing so.
Sure. Many do, but there are exceptions, even more so as we move on in the present era and the world becomes more intertwined.
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Alithis
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..."thier God "... ? i thought you just said before that you are a chrsitian ?
as for knowing you have received the holy Ghost ..it is not "all " about feelings . there is plain evidence of speaking in tongues .the only "evidence " spoken of in scripture ,that a person has received the baptism of the holy Ghost .
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I was baptised a Catholic, have practiced one form or another of Christianity for almost 50 years, did an altar call once and was commanded to speak in tongues but it didn't happen. .and other people either mumbled gibberish or switched to another language they spoke. ..anyway I've been doing that and continue to attend church and pray, but for 40+ years I've doubted the existence of God. I keep hanging in there hoping to find faith, but am wondering if it's time to either change up my search or give it up.
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mike van wyk
GODWITHUS
It will be best to only read and study God's word. The question is, who saved you? Are you saved and washed by the blood of the Lam. Jesus said, repent and be baptized. If we follow the commandments of Christ we are connected with God and think the things which is above. Jesus said He has come to do the will of the Father, therefore we also need to do God's will. To become part of the christian family repentance of our sin is important to become born again. John:3
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Yes, a practicing Christian unbeliever who would like to have faith. What's dishonest about that?
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Mother Theresa felt like you do, Mountain_Girl. So, it's not uncommon for various Christians to feel as if there is little or no meaning in what they do or in their attempts to have faith.
But, if you've hung in with Christianity for almost 50 years, you're doing more than a lot of people do. Many would have thrown in the towel years and years ago. By contrast, I say you're on the right track, and even though you don't feel the 'emotional' conviction that some other Christians claim to have, this doesn't mean you're somehow grossly deficient---it may just mean that you have more questions than the typical person.
Jesus said the path "to eternal life" is narrow and difficult, and it isn't something which all people will necessarily jump for joy about at all moments of their waking existence. Neither will they find that they can always avoid encountering some doubts along the way. It is for this reason that we see admonitions given to Christians by Jesus and His Apostles about the importance of persevering in Christian faith--we have to learn to persevere since the Christian life isn't expected to be an easy, gratifying, or exultant, path for any of us. In fact, if there is anything to be exultant in, it is in what Paul states in Romans 5:1-5,
5 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
In other words, our encounter with personal tribulations (whether physical or psychological) provide some of the 'proof' of the truth of Christianity and of our striving to have hope in God. So... part of the bible's "predictive model" is that we'll encounter challenges to our faith; and if we don't, then we might surmise that Christianity is false.
Don't give up on Jesus, Mountain_Girl. You've come this far, and you shouldn't focus so much on having epiphanies or ecstatic experiences (like tongue speaking or whatnot). Those are not 'proofs' of your possession of personal faith; rather, it is the Fruit of the Spirit (not spiritual gifts) that is the evidence of personal faith. Just know that, despite what you feel in the existential muddle of this life, Jesus Loves You, gave His life for too, and is drawing you to Himself with arms outstretched!
2PhiloVoid
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Actually, to apologize to a God I'm not sure exists simply for not believing in Him seems dishonest. I'm often told faith is a gift from God, something to thank Him for if you are given it.
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