Yes dear. Happy wife, happy life and other terms...

blessedwife318 said:

You mean almost like they are in complementarion relationship with each other. What a revolutionary concept.

Click to expand...

Doug Wilson is probably the most popular "face" for the complementarian camp---and I'd definitely not be able to use the description VG just used to describe his belief set.

blessedwife318 said:

Aw there it is. What feminist think about non feminist.

Click to expand...

She speaks of not following her husband in sin. God doesn't ask her to do that.

Or are you - a non feminist - claiming the opposite? If you are - that isn't biblical.

HannahT said:

She speaks of not following her husband in sin. God doesn't ask her to do that.

Or are you - a non feminist - claiming the opposite? If you are - that isn't biblical.

Click to expand...

If that makes you feel better you can think that. But I said nothing of the sort about following a husband into sin. I talked about how a wife is an adult and makes the choice to nag or not. That is in her not her husband and that simple statement revealed what feminist really think about women and how responsible they are.

blessedwife318 said:

One I think its clear by my few post on this board that I'm not afraid to voice my opinion. But I know that does not fit the mold that feminist have for us submissive wives so I'll let that pass. Feel free to continue to view me as a little women with her hands neatly folded in her lap if that makes you feel better. My husband and I will just be amused at that idea since it could not be further from the truth.

Click to expand...

As I read this thread I notice you aren't listening - yet applying motive and assumptions to every post. Yet, claiming above that you are afraid to voice your opinion. Your snark says the opposite. Its that proper attitude for a Christian?

You seem to be the one that is applying the stereotypes, and its a shame that you and your husband seem to be amused by them. That - sadly - also is not biblical.

blessedwife318 said:

If that makes you feel better you can think that. But I said nothing of the sort about following a husband into sin. I talked about how a wife is an adult and makes the choice to nag or not. That is in her not her husband and that simple statement revealed what feminist really think about women and how responsible they are.

Click to expand...

Nice diversion!

You didn't bother reading what the poster said - which is what she said - you don't follow your husband in sin. Then you snarked back, 'Aw there it is. What feminist think about non feminist.'

So you aren't making any sense, and yet at the same time falsely accusing people.

You can't have it both ways. Either a wife is an adult who can control when she nags, or she is just some little women who just reacts to her husband. I for one will chose to be an adult and take responsibility for my responses to him. It is not his job to make me happy. I can control my own emotions thank you very much.

Click to expand...

You keep saying this and we keep agreeing with you. lol. wow.

You mean almost like they are in complementarion relationship with each other. What a revolutionary concept.

Click to expand...

No. A complementary relationship still has a measure of hierarchy. But consider this:

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross. Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth...

Click to expand...

Jesus does not presume to be a "leader" or above those he died for - except at one point in his life when he humbly admitted he is the Christ - oh yes, and once to admit to Peter that Peter is right when he said "you are the Christ, the Son of the Living God!"

This does not paint the picture of a complementarian relationship. It paints the picture of a Messiah who has levelled himself so that we could meet him face to face in equality. Jesus also knows that many would do what he did - he died for us first, and many since then have also died (are, now, and will in the future) for his sake. Equality. And since our husbands can't claim to have fulfilled the law (live a sinless life), there is no way he can consider that he is in a greater or even different position than we are.

Jesus does not ask anything of us that he himself did not already do. Equality. The Bible never asks wives to do anything the husband is not asked also, and the Bible never asks husbands to do anything not also require of wives. Equality.

blessedwife318 said:

The whole OP was about the statment Happy Wife, Happy Life. I said I hated it because the idea behind it was that a wife really isn't in control her emotions, that it was all on her husband to keep her happy. I think that is stupid. Its you guys in your quest to prove that men are always wrong that drug it to the extremes of abusive husbands.

Click to expand...

Why would you even think that is the meaning behind it? (scratches head) I don't even understand how you landed there.

Who said women can't control their emotions?

You seem to be reading into things that aren't there.

In principle, happy wife, happy life means that if you do the simple things to make her happy (i.e. take care of your responsibilities around the house, be generally attentive, loving and considerate, etc.), then you'll have a happy life together since she'll have nothing to complain about. Yes, simplistic definition but more what the author was driving at - as did others. It's still kind of silly phrase, yet in many ways was meant with good intent.

Many of the women you speaking to you have husbands they love and cherish, so to say they have some 'quest' to show men are always wrong, etc? That just plain doesn't line up with logic. You seem to have a prejudicial view towards women that don't view life, faith, etc the way same you do.

You seem to be very cynical, and have a seriously jaded outlook on life towards others. I feel sorry for you. God would never wish that for you EVER!

Really Jesus is not in leadership. As the theology of feminism. Well just ignore the fact that he give commands which implies leadership.
I think that in every relationship there is a leader and a follower. From boss employee to parent child all the way down to friendships. Basic group dynamics tells us that someone always holds more power and influence. It's not revolutionary to realize that, its just an observation of facts. So either the wife is in charge or the husband is. Now I believe obviously that God designed marriage so the husband is the head. It does not bother me in the least. I view it as a high calling to show a picture of Christ and the Church.

Now here is what I find the most Ironic about feminism. It causes women to actually give up their power before marriage. Women have what men want and we had the power to control when they got it. Feminism (especially 3rd wave) told women to give it away and has created a men's paradise (until recently with what I think will be called 4th wave) where men got what they wanted with no responsibility. And now we see that feminism also thinks that women are not responsible for their action as well (another part of 4th wave I believe) now they are trying to force men to be responsible for the choices the women has made.
So I can either follow the feminist path and give up power to a bunch of men I care nothing about. Or I can follow the complementarion model and hold on to my power until I make a choice to give it to man I love and has shown his love for me. I'll go with the latter choice.

I like to think about things from different view points and angles and see if it changes any thing.
This discussion with you has just made me more convinced that my position is the right one so thanks for discussing this with me. It was informative

HannahT said:

Why would you even think that is the meaning behind it? (scratches head) I don't even understand how you landed there.

Who said women can't control their emotions?

You seem to be reading into things that aren't there.

In principle, happy wife, happy life means that if you do the simple things to make her happy (i.e. take care of your responsibilities around the house, be generally attentive, loving and considerate, etc.), then you'll have a happy life together since she'll have nothing to complain about. Yes, simplistic definition but more what the author was driving at - as did others. It's still kind of silly phrase, yet in many ways was meant with good intent.

Many of the women you speaking to you have husbands they love and cherish, so to say they have some 'quest' to show men are always wrong, etc? That just plain doesn't line up with logic. You seem to have a prejudicial view towards women that don't view life, faith, etc the way same you do.

You seem to be very cynical, and have a seriously jaded outlook on life towards others. I feel sorry for you. God would never wish that for you EVER!

Click to expand...

There you go again proving my point. I must say you guys are very helpful. I'm jades because I hate an expression that I find insulting to both men and women. OK that's good to know. Once again you guys have proven to be very informative

Another addition to my ignore list in 3...2...1

mkgal1 said:

Doug Wilson is probably the most popular "face" for the complementarian camp---and I'd definitely not be able to use the description VG just used to describe his belief set.

Click to expand...

Yeah I disagree with a lot of Doug Wilson's ideas as well so that doesn't mean much.

Really Jesus is not in leadership.

Click to expand...

That's not what I said. You sure take a lot of stuff out of context and twist it to say what you want it to say in order to try to make others look stupid. Here's what I did say (not me, but the Bible): He did not consider equality with God to be considered but made into human likeness.... HE didn't consider equality with God, but came down to meet us face to face. People DO follow him because HE loved us FIRST. So OUR submission is predicated on HIS love. In the same way, Jesus gained followers on earth because his followers saw qualities and characteristics in him that were worth following - NOT because he put himself into a position of leadership. In fact, he put himself into a position of submission - remember the passage in Phil. 2 - a position of humility and service, NOT "leadership."

And what happened then? GOD the Father placed him (Jesus) at his right hand and elevated him so that every knee will bow to him. As I stated earlier - the church responds by elevating him - ONLY because we recognize that HE elevated US first by dying for us while we were yet sinners (he elevated us, we elevate him = equal, and we will be CO-heirs with him in his Kingdom = equal). So wives are not called to respect our husbands until after he has initiated that respect by demonstrating his love for us. That is where the differences end.... because we are all responsible only for ourselves. I refuse to make my husband responsible to God for my behaviour, my foul sailor-mouth (no stereotyping here! lol), my complaining about the terrible drivers in this town, etc. That's MINE to own. My husband initiated a romantic love relationship with me, I responded and since then, we have been on equal footing - equal say in decisions, equal in intellect, in abilities, equal access to the bank account, equal.

Yes, I think I'm with RPD and others who figure you're just out to troll for reactions. You only hear what you want to hear and it is usually out of context with you. I'm done. Think what you like. Thank God my husband is my equal and not in a positional place of "leadership" and me in a positional "followership" just because he has all the right body parts and I don't. lol. I honour the fact that we are first and foremost brother and sister in Christ - an equal relationship.

@ValleyGal I got u on the sailor mouth thing, especially when driving.

blessedwife318 said:

Yeah I disagree with a lot of Doug Wilson's ideas as well so that doesn't mean much.

Click to expand...

What about
John Piper and Wayne Grudem ?

Well I'm glad that you will acknowledge that submission is not a bad thing. And it doesn't mean that a women is less of a person because she submits go her husband.
And I'm glad to see that you are now acknowledging that women are responsible for their own actions. I would say that is progress.

mkgal1 said:

What about
John Piper and Wayne Grudem ?

Click to expand...

For the most part I agree with them. There are a few things here and there I disagree but that I think is true with everyone out there. I mean I don't agree with my husband 100%

blessedwife318 said:

There you go again proving my point. I must say you guys are very helpful. I'm jades because I hate an expression that I find insulting to both men and women. OK that's good to know. Once again you guys have proven to be very informative

Click to expand...

Your not helpful at all. Your not making any sense.

I point out a generally accepted definition of the phrase - you ignore that fact - and claim some point was made.

I mean you don't even ready WHY you seem jaded, but claim its over your disagreement over a definition?

Are you even reading what people are saying, or are you just making things up as you along? You sure don't seem to be reading what people are saying, because you aren't even responding to it. Your just jumping to conclusions again.

(Shrugs) I'll just assume you follow conversations better verbally.

blessedwife318 said:

Well I'm glad that you will acknowledge that submission is not a bad thing. And it doesn't mean that a women is less of a person because she submits go her husband.
And I'm glad to see that you are now acknowledging that women are responsible for their own actions. I would say that is progress.

Click to expand...

Seriously? LOL. If you had been reading ANY of my posts, I NEVER said submission was a bad thing. I have ALWAYS maintained that submission is a good thing but it is MUTUAL between husband and wife as per Eph. 5:21. Mutual submission is in reverence to Christ - NOT because one of us is in leadership over the other. It is mutual, and that is an egalitarian marriage based on equality. And I have NEVER said women are not responsible for their own actions. YOU keep saying that men are leaders, which leaves them (by default) responsible for their wives' actions (my assertions based on leadership studies).

This is hilarious, you taking credit for the things I've been saying all along. LOL. Wow this is rich. And really very unchristian and unbecoming of a woman, feminist or not.

Insert phrase regarding trying to see someone else's point of view.

blessedwife318 said:

It makes no sense but that is what you guys have been arguing since for some reason saying that women and adults and responsible for their own actions is outrageous to you guys.

Click to expand...

Since you've been corrected each time--that's not what anyone is posting--I have to believe you're being deliberately dishonest in posting this. Honesty is no doubt a trait God highly values...but you don't seem to have the same value system.

blessedwife318 said:

Basic group dynamics tells us that someone always holds more power and influence. It's not revolutionary to realize that, its just an observation of facts. So either the wife is in charge or the husband is.

Click to expand...

You seem to focus a LOT on power. Another attribute that's highly valued in Christianity is "humility". Are you familiar with the definition of that? An example of it lived out (for one) was Christ and the Samaritan woman (or the basic--yet profound--fact that He lived in a limited human body and died for us). From my perspective--humility is a trait that set Christ apart from the Pharisees.

blessedwife318 said:

And I'm glad to see that you are now acknowledging that women are responsible for their own actions. I would say that is progress.

Click to expand...

The progress may be on your behalf, because nothing else has changed.