Identity Crisis
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Can I get a Mod to not only close, but delete this thread? Staley denies the Trinity, had NO idea till today.
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I don't know of any Pastor who teaches the whole of scripture correctly. Who told you Staley denies the Trinity? Did you hear it for yourself in it's complete context or did someone just throw you a tidbit from the whole of the context and with that tidbit conclude the accusation correct? I'm not accusing you just asking. I'm right now listening to the teaching to hear for myself. He's a good teacher on many things...but like I first said, I don't know of any Pastor who teaches the whole of scripture correctly.
More times than not when I listened to the whole for myself ("study to show yourself approved" 2 Tim 2:15), what I was told was said, wasn't. He still has teachings to ponder and consider for yourself.
I'll try to come back and post what I conclude after listening to the complete series. I agree The Identity Crises is good.
More times than not when I listened to the whole for myself ("study to show yourself approved" 2 Tim 2:15), what I was told was said, wasn't.
He still has teachings to ponder and consider for yourself.I'll try to come back and post what I conclude after listening to the complete series.
I agree The Identity Crises is good.
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I saw a YT vid of his called "Trinity on trial".I don't know of any Pastor who teaches the whole of scripture correctly. Who told you Staley denies the Trinity? Did you hear it for yourself in it's complete context or did someone just throw you a tidbit from the whole of the context and with that tidbit conclude the accusation correct? I'm not accusing you just asking. I'm right now listening to the teaching to hear for myself. He's a good teacher on many things...but like I first said, I don't know of any Pastor who teaches the whole of scripture correctly.
More times than not when I listened to the whole for myself ("study to show yourself approved" 2 Tim 2:15), what I was told was said, wasn't.
I'll try to come back and post what I conclude after listening to the complete series.
I watched maybe 30 minutes of it.
I know that staley is (somewhat) connected to the HRM.
I also know that the HRM has a problem with the Trinity.
Now, if you want to watch 6 hours (its a 4 part series) and tell me that I'm wrong, I'll listen but putting a member of the Godhead "on trial"?
I mean seriously, the title alone is...well I dunno if its blasphemy or ignorance or wth it is, stupid at the very least.
SP, wouldn't YOU think along those lines? In the vid he says himself "This is one of those topics you dont want to ever get into." (Direct quote)
Why?
sigh. (Not acting like a HH either. I changed my avatar bc one of the names of Yeshua is "He will destroy the establishment of the eye") very disconcerted.
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I've just listened to part 1 of 4 and I think 30 minutes was not enough for hearing someone through. So far I have heard nothing anti about the trinity from him. Of course I still have 3 more parts to listen to.
First, maybe I should ask, what is your thinking on the Trinity? Do you think they are 3 separate beings? Do you think they are ONE (as God declared He is) but 3 separate parts? I did not hear anything about a member being put on trial but I did hear him say what we've been taught about the trinity being put on trial. At least that's the way I understood it. I don't think the title is blasphemous at all...it's the title of a teaching. That's all.
Here's the 1st part:
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Let me begin by saying that his message in this YT vid has changed my life. I'm actively working on rewiring my brain. (As I type this, I'm watching a title called "Out of the Heart: Committing Spiritual Suicide with the Tongue" ) which, if you anti-HH ppl applied this message, and did it this way, rather than club ppl to death here as you typically do, maybe ppl would listen. Just saying.
I can't understand the Trinity, I don't believe no mortal can. (mho) Either God was talking to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane, or worse, he was talking to His left behind grace (pfft) OR there are three separate beings, that are ONE. I have to believe there is one God, cause Yashuwah says so In Isaiah. (Are they one in thought & deed? One in purpose?etc etc. )
I pray I'm wrong. If I'm guilty of slander, if I made a wrong assumption, i'll repent & apologize. I hope I am wrong, bc I have been so let down by "men of God" that I'm used to it now. BUT, experience has usually proved me right. (Not bragging or complaining, just fact)
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I understand what you are saying
That's why I just don't listen to others opinions anymore on what a teachers says or does not say. I listen to the whole thing myself. "Out of The Heart" is an excellent teaching and you are so right on it. I believe Jim Staley makes it clear that he does not have a full understanding of who God is nor does anyone for that matter. However, Staley does give a lot of thought to ponder. So far, in what I've heard, he's shown how God and Yeshua are the same person. Really, it should be listened to in it's entirety. We cannot say we've heard something unless we have heard the whole thing. Prov 18:13 He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.
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I get that. "Prov 18:13 He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him" I do, but at the same time I didn't want ANYONE being deceived by something I posted. If we waited to vet every sermon we ever heard, we wouldn't post anything.I understand what you are saying
I believe Jim Staley makes it clear that he does not have a full understanding of who God is nor does anyone for that matter. However, Staley does give a lot of thought to ponder. So far, in what I've heard, he's shown how God and Yeshua are the same person. Really, it should be listened to in it's entirety. We cannot say we've heard something unless we have heard the whole thing. Prov 18:13 He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.
We live in a world of deceit, and I don't want to add to it. I'll listen to it later (in full) and amend (or not) accordingly.
Thank you for talking to me & not at me.
gbu
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I can totally understand not wanting to be deceptive too. The church has already been deceptive in many ways (some intended, some not) and people have wrong theology that has been taught as truth for centuries. Being saved is by faith alone in Yeshua, whose blood was shed as covering for our sins. Our doctrines, while important, are not what saves us.
Each person has a responsibility to check things out for themselves. I don't think there will be one person who stands before God and be able to pass the buck onto the teacher that taught them. True, the teacher will answer for their own lack of study and passing on bad info but the students will not be let off the hook because they chose to just believe the teacher instead of checking it out for themselves.
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On part 3 right now.
Still waiting for his interpretation of "helper".
Tripped out on YHWH & Jesus being basically the same person. (BUT I am not talking about "oneness")
Still waiting for his interpretation of "helper".
Tripped out on YHWH & Jesus being basically the same person. (BUT I am not talking about "oneness")
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Someone tell me yes or no, if this guy isn't reinterpreting the very role or essence of the Holy spirit in part 4 of "Trinity on trial".
I feel sick in my Spirit right now. someone that can digest meat please help me that I am not hearing what I think I am.
I feel sick in my Spirit right now. someone that can digest meat please help me that I am not hearing what I think I am.
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Ok, I'm calling shenanigans on this whole series. Does Staley teach biblically that Jesus & the Father are one? Yes.
Does he teach that one means more than unity? Yes.
Does he teach that it is a form of oneness? Yes, BUT not in the typical way that oneness pentecostals believe. (And since at one time, I was part of a oneness pentecostal church for twelve years, I can state that emphatically).
He teaches very well, using the OT, Aramaic Targums, and other 1st century sources, who the Father & son are, hands down. He does NOT however, go into any serious detail of the Holy Spirit. The amount of time spent on the HS is LAUGHABLE. Over five HOURS he teaches about the YHWH & Yeshua, and maybe speaks about the HS for a TOTAL of 25 minutes. (And this isn't in a row either) So, at the very least, the title is mis-leading.
HOWEVER
Considering the length & depth which the first two ARE taught, it can only be surmised (imo) that the lack of teaching about the HS, was done on purpose.
(He doesn't even mention, again, in over FIVE HOURS, that the HS can be GRIEVED!
And this is why,, on my previous post #11, that I asked for help bc on part 4 around the time when he makes an insinuation, when he talks about the yoke of Jesus, that is very unsettling.(start at the 35 minute mark) I won't mention it here, and if you don't have "ears to hear", then I'm sorry, but i'm not about to get into a description of what was implied, because, well to be frank, its beyond my understanding. One can read into that insinuation a couple of ways. I took it one way, which is why I feel physically ill right now, and why I am asking for help from those that can digest & eat meat.
Does he teach that one means more than unity? Yes.
Does he teach that it is a form of oneness? Yes, BUT not in the typical way that oneness pentecostals believe. (And since at one time, I was part of a oneness pentecostal church for twelve years, I can state that emphatically).
He teaches very well, using the OT, Aramaic Targums, and other 1st century sources, who the Father & son are, hands down. He does NOT however, go into any serious detail of the Holy Spirit. The amount of time spent on the HS is LAUGHABLE. Over five HOURS he teaches about the YHWH & Yeshua, and maybe speaks about the HS for a TOTAL of 25 minutes. (And this isn't in a row either) So, at the very least, the title is mis-leading.
HOWEVER
Considering the length & depth which the first two ARE taught, it can only be surmised (imo) that the lack of teaching about the HS, was done on purpose.
(He doesn't even mention, again, in over FIVE HOURS, that the HS can be GRIEVED!
And this is why,, on my previous post #11, that I asked for help bc on part 4 around the time when he makes an insinuation, when he talks about the yoke of Jesus, that is very unsettling.(start at the 35 minute mark) I won't mention it here, and if you don't have "ears to hear", then I'm sorry, but i'm not about to get into a description of what was implied, because, well to be frank, its beyond my understanding. One can read into that insinuation a couple of ways. I took it one way, which is why I feel physically ill right now, and why I am asking for help from those that can digest & eat meat.
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Why has it upset you? What if the way the Oneness Pentecostal taught you is wrong? Staley is doing the teaching and he is touching on particular parts. Maybe he did give it an improper title, but he is human. I've given titles to some of my studies on here and some went balistic on me because in their minds the title meant something in particular to them but my intent was on a different line than what they thought and in their minds I was not talking on what I said I was. :sOk, I'm calling shenanigans on this whole series. Does Staley teach biblically that Jesus & the Father are one? Yes.
Does he teach that one means more than unity? Yes.
Does he teach that it is a form of oneness? Yes, BUT not in the typical way that oneness pentecostals believe. (And since at one time, I was part of a oneness pentecostal church for twelve years, I can state that emphatically).
He teaches very well, using the OT, Aramaic Targums, and other 1st century sources, who the Father & son are, hands down. He does NOT however, go into any serious detail of the Holy Spirit. The amount of time spent on the HS is LAUGHABLE. Over five HOURS he teaches about the YHWH & Yeshua, and maybe speaks about the HS for a TOTAL of 25 minutes. (And this isn't in a row either) So, at the very least, the title is mis-leading.
HOWEVER
Considering the length & depth which the first two ARE taught, it can only be surmised (imo) that the lack of teaching about the HS, was done on purpose.
(He doesn't even mention, again, in over FIVE HOURS, that the HS can be GRIEVED!
And this is why,, on my previous post #11, that I asked for help bc on part 4 around the time when he makes an insinuation, when he talks about the yoke of Jesus, that is very unsettling.(start at the 35 minute mark) I won't mention it here, and if you don't have "ears to hear", then I'm sorry, but i'm not about to get into a description of what was implied, because, well to be frank, its beyond my understanding. One can read into that insinuation a couple of ways. I took it one way, which is why I feel physically ill right now, and why I am asking for help from those that can digest & eat meat.
I can't say one way or the other on what Staley's teaching. I think it's interesting, it makes me think. To me it sounds plausible and makes more sense to me than the 3 circles demonstration shown to me by an Assembly of God Pastor. Have you ever heard Jesse Duplantis tell of his vision of going to heaven and when he saw God? That's very interesting too. What Staley is teaching reminds me of what Duplantis described.
Personally, I don't know of any scripture that says we "MUST" believe in the trinity as taught by the OP, AG, Baptist, etc.. It does say we MUST believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and we will be saved. That's just my thoughts though.
It sounds like maybe you should put this to the side and just chew a little on it for awhile. That's what I do when I don't understand something or am upset over what is being said. I go back and forth with God in discussion. I throw out a scripture and He throws one back at me. Eventually I come to a conclusion. Then further down the line, it comes up again, and I think and chew and discuss with God some more and then my opinion adjusts some, again. This may happen over and over before I finely settle in.
Don't give up searching. Be blessed sister.
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I have not heard it yet so I cannot say. I would not doubt that what Staley says is a reinterpretation of what the "church" currently says....but is the church perfectly correct on it? I doubt that too. Just my opinion though.
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He says at the 35 minute mark that the HG is basically the "essence" of the father & the son.Why has it upset you? What if the way the Oneness Pentecostal taught you is wrong? Staley is doing the teaching and he is touching on particular parts. Maybe he did give it an improper title, but he is human. I've given titles to some of my studies on here and some went balistic on me because in their minds the title meant something in particular to them but my intent was on a different line than what they thought and in their minds I was not talking on what I said I was. :s
I can't say one way or the other on what Staley's teaching. I think it's interesting, it makes me think. To me it sounds plausible and makes more sense to me than the 3 circles demonstration shown to me by an Assembly of God Pastor. Have you ever heard Jesse Duplantis tell of his vision of going to heaven and when he saw God? That's very interesting too. What Staley is teaching reminds me of what Duplantis described.
Personally, I don't know of any scripture that says we "MUST" believe in the trinity as taught by the OP, AG, Baptist, etc.. It does say we MUST believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and we will be saved. That's just my thoughts though.
It sounds like maybe you should put this to the side and just chew a little on it for awhile. That's what I do when I don't understand something or am upset over what is being said. I go back and forth with God in discussion. I throw out a scripture and He throws one back at me. Eventually I come to a conclusion. Then further down the line, it comes up again, and I think and chew and discuss with God some more and then my opinion adjusts some, again. This may happen over and over before I finely settle in.
Don't give up searching. Be blessed sister.
sounds too much like JW's "force" to me.
you can't grieve, blaspheme or lie to a "force".
that is why i am the way i am now.
thanks anyway.
and its brother btw.
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My apologies brother.
I'm not trying to convince you on anything other than discussing it with God and mulling and chewing over any teaching. I know I was pretty upset over a teaching by another person but after awhile I began to understand it and it was a great help for the situation I was in. Not saying that you will conclude "for" what Staley is teaching, just that you mull and chew awhile before you just throw it out with the bathwater.
God bless you.
PS I think "essence" and "force" mean different things. And adding to that, one can grieve, blaspheme, and lie to anything living.
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