LDS Is Moroni a fallen demonic angel?

ToBeLoved said:

Another excuse.

With the internet we have access to much information. One does need to check their sources.

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Problem is, I've seen precious few critics of the LDS faith actually do so.

It's as if people learned nothing from the Mosser-Owen Report in the 19 years since it was first issued.

Ironhold said:

Problem is, I've seen precious few critics of the LDS faith actually do so.

It's as if people learned nothing from the Mosser-Owen Report in the 19 years since it was first issued.

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But. Isn't it the people that represent your faith the ones who need to do a better job.

Can't expect people to do it for you. Can you ?

ToBeLoved said:

But. Isn't it the people that represent your faith the ones who need to do a better job.

Can't expect people to do it for you. Can you ?

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It doesn't matter how well you explain things if people don't listen.

fatboys said:

Oh I forgot everything on the Internet is true. My bad

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BigDaddy4 said:

Now you're making things up, too.

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It's called common sense

ToBeLoved said:

But. Isn't it the people that represent your faith the ones who need to do a better job.

Can't expect people to do it for you. Can you ?

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There's a known phenomenon called "My preacher knows more than you do!".

This is where a "defender of the faith" type (literally or metaphorically) plugs their ears and begins chanting when confronted by the fact that what their minister told them about the LDS faith is incorrect. Rather than recognize that their minister was dispensing incorrect information, these people would prefer to believe that their minister is somehow either more knowledgeable about the church than an actual member or that the actual member is somehow lying to them. In extreme instances, this level of denial ends in the "defender" suffering a mental breakdown over the prospect of a person they so dearly trusted being wrong and possibly even being deliberately wrong.

So yes - we do try to explain, but people would prefer to believe in the false information they've been told.

fatboys said:

It's called common sense

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Wow, now you are being dishonest. The post of mine that you quoted had nothing to do with your little quip about the internet.

Jane_Doe said:

It doesn't matter how well you explain things if people don't listen.

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I don't know. I think it's a cop-out for not trying.

Not speaking to you or anyone on this thread personally, but life in general. I mean we have to make noise to be heard. I guess I'm a little bit of a rebel at heart.

fatboys said:

It's called common sense

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Your a good representative for Mormons. They are lucky to have you.

ToBeLoved said:

I mean we have to make noise to be heard.

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Are you suggesting that Mormons aren't vocal enough?

BigDaddy4 said:

That's a lame excuse. Your contradictions are showing. Apparently "according to our manner of speech" does not mean "a full-blown commonly-spoken language" (your words)??

And you conveniently forget that you made this statement, which contradicts what you just said:
"The people who lived at the time of the BoM had no trouble reading it, indicating that the system was common enough" [emphasis mine].

I think you're just making things up.

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Can any lds straighten out this contradiction? Ironhold is apparently confused about whether reformed Egyptian (lds term, not mine. See previous references to BOM.) was "common" or not and wants to blame the "critics" for "presuming" it was.

BigDaddy4 said:

Can any lds straighten out this contradiction? Ironhold is apparently confused about whether reformed Egyptian (lds term, not mine. See previous references to BOM.) was "common" or not and wants to blame the "critics" for "presuming" it was.

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Why? So you can't understand something else.

Jane_Doe said:

Are you suggesting that Mormons aren't vocal enough?

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Not at all. Just each of us sharing Christ with others

fatboys said:

Why? So you can't understand something else.

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Stop being so rude.

Why are you even here? To complain
?

BigDaddy4 said:

Can any lds straighten out this contradiction? Ironhold is apparently confused about whether reformed Egyptian (lds term, not mine. See previous references to BOM.) was "common" or not and wants to blame the "critics" for "presuming" it was.

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Apparentaly they won't--so we have to go by what their writings say---"And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech"

"According to our manner speech, handed down and altered by us-"--that means nobody else had their shorthand manner of writing to go along with their own manner of speech. That means there should be any no other group of people with the same manner of writing and speech---it was uniquely their own their own, and named reformed Egyptian by them.

ToBeLoved said:

Stop being so rude.

Why are you even here? To complain
?

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You want to know the truth? I am here because there are so many critics here of my faith that distort what I believe. I came here to correct them. But their hearts are so hardened against LDS that there are no amount of words that can be given for there to be a answer for them. I personally have taken a prayerful approach in understanding you faith. I have considered throughly you doctrines and compared them with what my beliefs are. Although you have many truths within your faith I find it incomplete. It is a shame that you find nothing of value in our doctrines. They are not that different from your own. But critics have taken parts of our doctrines and blown differences in our beliefs well beyond what it possibly should be. They have done this to make our faith look ugly. Critics of my faith have such a weak foundation in understanding God the Father and his beloved Son that any knowledge that would enlighten Broaden that understand is met with convulsions hate and disdain. We claim a restoration. You claim a protest.

fatboys said:

You want to know the truth? I am here because there are so many critics here of my faith that distort what I believe. I came here to correct them. But their hearts are so hardened against LDS that there are no amount of words that can be given for there to be a answer for them. I personally have taken a prayerful approach in understanding you faith. I have considered throughly you doctrines and compared them with what my beliefs are. Although you have many truths within your faith I find it incomplete. It is a shame that you find nothing of value in our doctrines. They are not that different from your own. But critics have taken parts of our doctrines and blown differences in our beliefs well beyond what it possibly should be. They have done this to make our faith look ugly. Critics of my faith have such a weak foundation in understanding God the Father and his beloved Son that any knowledge that would enlighten Broaden that understand is met with convulsions hate and disdain. We claim a restoration. You claim a protest.

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The thing is that you are more rude and condescending than any Christian here. So what you are doing is creating the hostile environment that you say others create right here.

Why you are bringing all that baggage into this conversation is beyond me.

What it is showing us is that when there is nothing to say to defend your faith, then the insults start.

fatboys said:

Why? So you can't understand something else.

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Well that was a non-value added response.

Twas not I who was confused and made false statements and accusations about the supposed commonality of reformed Egyptian that contradict your scripture. I'm offering a chance for any lds to clear the matter up.

fatboys said:

You want to know the truth? I am here because there are so many critics here of my faith that distort what I believe. I came here to correct them. But their hearts are so hardened against LDS that there are no amount of words that can be given for there to be a answer for them. I personally have taken a prayerful approach in understanding you faith. I have considered throughly you doctrines and compared them with what my beliefs are. Although you have many truths within your faith I find it incomplete. It is a shame that you find nothing of value in our doctrines. They are not that different from your own. But critics have taken parts of our doctrines and blown differences in our beliefs well beyond what it possibly should be. They have done this to make our faith look ugly. Critics of my faith have such a weak foundation in understanding God the Father and his beloved Son that any knowledge that would enlighten Broaden that understand is met with convulsions hate and disdain. We claim a restoration. You claim a protest.

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Your rudeness did nothing to correct the distortion that was created by one of your own. Who, by the way, falsely accused your so-called "critics" of saying something they did not while at the same time confirming the same thing the "critics" are accused of. Where is the "truth" in that?

BigDaddy4 said:

Well that was a non-value added response.

Twas not I who was confused and made false statements and accusations about the supposed commonality of reformed Egyptian that contradict your scripture. I'm offering a chance for any lds to clear the matter up.

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Don't bother.

This thread has turned into lds is the victim of everyone.

They really do not want to talk about theology, but cry about there 20 years of being put down.

I am hoping these threads close if they do not want to do anything but complain, because they are frustrating everyone else and wasting everyone's time. We take time to respond and read these threads and that does not seem to be earning us any conversation or value.

I'm not sure where their minds are, but it is not talking about in reality their theology, it is changing our minds else we are the "CRITICS" of their religion. So in essence it is easy to make us out to be the 'bad guys' so they can feel like victims defending non existant languages, gold plates and pre-existing humans that turn into angels in the afterlife.

Blah, blah, blah, because you, blah, blah, blah, critics are not fair, blah, blah, blah.

I think they should venture out onto the Christian threads and hold a few conversations out there and see that we all defend our POV in a way, with scripture and no one is ganging up on the poor, criticized Mormons.

BigDaddy4 said:

Your rudeness did nothing to correct the distortion that was created by one of your own. Who, by the way, falsely accused your so-called "critics" of saying something they did not while at the same time confirming the same thing the "critics" are accused of. Where is the "truth" in that?

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They are just rude people. With a chip on their shoulder. Better to not question the white, fluffy cloud their floating on.