Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

nomadictheist said:

I don't think that's an accurate representation of what most denominations believe. Rather, I believe most denominations believe that the Father, the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit are all the one God, but not each the one God. Equal in essence, but not in function.

The issue of immortality is the reason that Jesus, the Word of God and the Son of God, had to become flesh. For without becoming flesh He could not die. By becoming flesh, the Word, that is Jesus, was able to be tempted, suffer, and die, so that with the resurrection the corruption of the flesh was swallowed up.

The notion that Jesus could not be both God and man was a component of early gnostic heresies and a doctrine specifically rejected and refuted by St. Irenaeus in the 2nd Century AD, in the writings "Against Heresies." This was later affirmed by St. Epiphanius (who lived in the 4th century AD), and others.

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If I asked you to tell me the core foundation on which the new covenant stands you could not answer correctly, neither could der altar or keterinah. You people cram your heads full of theologians and scholars concerning subjects that are beyond man to understand and in the process leave behind what is most important in the faith to understand.
I actually feel sorry for you people, you miss out on so much. It is all revelling In theological study for that is what you most enjoy doing. And whether you admit it or not, you then become proud of what you think you know by endlessly reading of church fathers, various theologians and scholars, the greek nt, strongs concordance, lexicons and goodness knows what else. None of them can be relied on to lead you Into spiritual truth that matters/ the heart of the message the letter contains.
I can assure you if this subject was half as important to God as it is you people the bible would plainly state Jesus is the one true God and part of an equal trinity comprising of father son and holy spirit, all equally being the one true God. But of course if the bible plainly stated that it would rob you of doing what you most enjoy wouldn't it

Hi,

I guess I will leave for awhile.

LOVE,

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

I guess I will leave for awhile.

LOVE,

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And of course others believe great knowledge had been revealed to them just by meditation on the spiritual.

What is the core foundation of the new covenant upon which the christian faith stands?

If you can answer correctly I will accept you know far more than I of Christianity, even this subject. But could you answer correctly? I'm sure you cannot

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat said:

Sigh...All that can be done is to get the truth out there nothing more nothing less can be done. You must ask yourself what began through the son. What are they specifically talking about. Is it the world? no. Is it salvation? Yes. Is it the proclamation of the good news? Yes. Jesus is not the creator. God creates through his word and the word became flesh(when jesus came into this world) and spoke Gods word hence we can say things like all things were created through christ. But not christ alone by himself but Jesus was used as Gods instrument. The fact is Jesus began at his birth like every other man. He was known in gods foreknowledge before the world which is true. Just like we all were.

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We could ask from where does Gods word come? God spoke through the prophets in the Ot, how? The holy spirit came upon them.
Jesus spoke the words of God for the spirit was on him without limit john 3:34

He spoke in THE NAME of the father( deut18:19)
The holy spirit descended on Christ in BODILY form at his baptism Luke 3:22.
Many of those who insist you term Christ God himself rarely mention the holy spirit. Though they say the believe in a tri ity where three are equally the one God, in reality for them the holy spirit I not equal to father and son. Many appear to have a trinity of father, son and the bible( or theological books)
The holy spirit is key to understanding. But many reject being led by him into truth, preferring being stimulated by a belief they can learn through what are often well above average academic minds.
It ends up condemning people who stand on the words of Christ when he walked this earth. The holy spirit could never lead anyone to do that, as Trinitarian doctrine must testify.

stuart lawrence said:

If I asked you to tell me the core foundation on which the new covenant stands you could not answer correctly, neither could der altar or keterinah. You people cram your heads full of theologians and scholars concerning subjects that are beyond man to understand and in the process leave behind what is most important in the faith to understand.
I actually feel sorry for you people, you miss out on so much. It is all revelling In theological study for that is what you most enjoy doing. And whether you admit it or not, you then become proud of what you think you know by endlessly reading of church fathers, various theologians and scholars, the greek nt, strongs concordance, lexicons and goodness knows what else. None of them can be relied on to lead you Into spiritual truth that matters/ the heart of the message the letter contains.
I can assure you if this subject was half as important to God as it is you people the bible would plainly state Jesus is the one true God and part of an equal trinity comprising of father son and holy spirit, all equally being the one true God. But of course if the bible plainly stated that it would rob you of doing what you most enjoy wouldn't it

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So now you have gone from heresy to direct accusation?

The core of the new covenant can be found in John 3:16:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

As Hebrews said, the blood of Christ was shed once for all, and by believing in Him we are saved.

As Hebrews also says, the Son "laid the foundations of the earth, and heaven is the work of your [His] hands..."

But if you don't believe what Jesus said about Himself, then how can you truly believe in Jesus? If Jesus "didn't exist till he was created," then how could He share glory with the Father before the world existed? Jesus was not created. He was sent. Show me one scripture where Jesus says He was created.

I choose to believe all the words of the Bible. Not just some. That's why I don't have to explain away passages like John 1, Isaiah 9, Hebrews 1, Revelation 1, Revelation 22, 1 Corinthians 8, etc. You are the one who contradicts the plain meaning of these texts, and yet you accuse us of relying on "scholars and theologians" because we have looked and found that the early church fathers believed the plain meaning of these texts, and not the warped, twisted view that requires them to all be re-interpreted and/or flat-out ignored.

stuart lawrence said:

The first question has previously been addressed. As for the second. Whatever you personally signed up to, according to the official doctrine of mainline Trinitarian denominations it is a requirement of salvation to believe Christ is the one true God. To outrightly deny it, would not reflect well of your understanding of that doctrine the churches are signed up to

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Neither Christendom nor church can get you salvation. It is by Jesus Christ only!

nomadictheist said:

So now you have gone from heresy to direct accusation?

The core of the new covenant can be found in John 3:16:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

As Hebrews said, the blood of Christ was shed once for all, and by believing in Him we are saved.

As Hebrews also says, the Son "laid the foundations of the earth, and heaven is the work of your [His] hands..."

But if you don't believe what Jesus said about Himself, then how can you truly believe in Jesus? If Jesus "didn't exist till he was created," then how could He share glory with the Father before the world existed? Jesus was not created. He was sent. Show me one scripture where Jesus says He was created.

I choose to believe all the words of the Bible. Not just some. That's why I don't have to explain away passages like John 1, Isaiah 9, Hebrews 1, Revelation 1, Revelation 22, 1 Corinthians 8, etc. You are the one who contradicts the plain meaning of these texts, and yet you accuse us of relying on "scholars and theologians" because we have looked and found that the early church fathers believed the plain meaning of these texts, and not the warped, twisted view that requires them to all be re-interpreted and/or flat-out ignored.

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I knew you couldn't answer the question. But you are not alone. Many of you on the internet do not rely on the holy spirit to lead you into truth, it is just theological study of the academic mind.

nomadictheist said:

So now you have gone from heresy to direct accusation?

The core of the new covenant can be found in John 3:16:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

As Hebrews said, the blood of Christ was shed once for all, and by believing in Him we are saved.

As Hebrews also says, the Son "laid the foundations of the earth, and heaven is the work of your [His] hands..."

But if you don't believe what Jesus said about Himself, then how can you truly believe in Jesus? If Jesus "didn't exist till he was created," then how could He share glory with the Father before the world existed? Jesus was not created. He was sent. Show me one scripture where Jesus says He was created.

I choose to believe all the words of the Bible. Not just some. That's why I don't have to explain away passages like John 1, Isaiah 9, Hebrews 1, Revelation 1, Revelation 22, 1 Corinthians 8, etc. You are the one who contradicts the plain meaning of these texts, and yet you accuse us of relying on "scholars and theologians" because we have looked and found that the early church fathers believed the plain meaning of these texts, and not the warped, twisted view that requires them to all be re-interpreted and/or flat-out ignored.

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Heresy lol. So its heresy now to stand on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth.
Some of you in this debate are at best on the extreme wing of the christian faith. You might think and actually be in the majority in a debate such as Thi, but in the real world, in the churches the vast majority of pew sitters would not take your comments seriously

nomadictheist said:

So now you have gone from heresy to direct accusation?

The core of the new covenant can be found in John 3:16:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

As Hebrews said, the blood of Christ was shed once for all, and by believing in Him we are saved.

As Hebrews also says, the Son "laid the foundations of the earth, and heaven is the work of your [His] hands..."

But if you don't believe what Jesus said about Himself, then how can you truly believe in Jesus? If Jesus "didn't exist till he was created," then how could He share glory with the Father before the world existed? Jesus was not created. He was sent. Show me one scripture where Jesus says He was created.

I choose to believe all the words of the Bible. Not just some. That's why I don't have to explain away passages like John 1, Isaiah 9, Hebrews 1, Revelation 1, Revelation 22, 1 Corinthians 8, etc. You are the one who contradicts the plain meaning of these texts, and yet you accuse us of relying on "scholars and theologians" because we have looked and found that the early church fathers believed the plain meaning of these texts, and not the warped, twisted view that requires them to all be re-interpreted and/or flat-out ignored.

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A christian is not under law but under grace, so what's to stop them robbing a bank and saying:
Its ok, because I am not under law i attain eternal life anyway.
Show me according to the basis of the new covenant why that cannot happen?
You cannot can you

stuart lawrence said:

Heresy lol. So its heresy now to stand on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth.
Some of you in this debate are at best on the extreme wing of the christian faith. You might think and actually be in the majority in a debate such as Thi, but in the real world, in the churches the vast majority of pew sitters would not take your comments seriously

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The plain words of Christ?

You have yet to show me where Jesus said He was created, as you claim. Jesus says multiple times that He was "sent" into the world. That His Father "sent" Him. He never says He was created, and the Bible explicitly says He was not. To contradict the Bible is heresy.

I do not deny any of Jesus' words. But when you say He did not exist till He was created, you deny many of them.

I hope the vast majority of Christians believe that Jesus, the Word, was God, became flesh, suffered and died as the spotless lamb of the new covenant, and rose again on the third day. Because this is what the Bible teaches.

stuart lawrence said:

A christian is not under law but under grace, so what's to stop them robbing a bank and saying:
Its ok, because I am not under law i attain eternal life anyway.
Show me according to the basis of the new covenant why that cannot happen?
You cannot can you

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Is it not written, "What then, shall I go on sinning that grace shall increase? May it never be! I died to sin. How can I live in it any longer?"

The basis of the new covenant is the blood of Jesus, the Word, the Son of God, the spotless lamb, shed once for the forgiveness of all. If you deny that, you deny the entire New Testament.

The seal of the new covenant is the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13).

But we also know that once we believe we are changed, for "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has gone. The new has come."

But you distract from the truth that you deny many of the words of Christ.

nomadictheist said:

Is it not written, "What then, shall I go on sinning that grace shall increase? May it never be! I died to sin. How can I live in it any longer?"

The basis of the new covenant is the blood of Jesus, the Word, the Son of God, the spotless lamb, shed once for the forgiveness of all. If you deny that, you deny the entire New Testament.

The seal of the new covenant is the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13).

But we also know that once we believe we are changed, for "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has gone. The new has come."

But you distract from the truth that you deny many of the words of Christ.

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The new covenant hinges on- has at it's foundation, not one core fact, but two. If I am totally honest, you are lost here, for your knowledge of what truly matters I poor. That is why you make the often absurd comments you do about your herezies and much else

nomadictheist said:

The plain words of Christ?

You have yet to show me where Jesus said He was created, as you claim. Jesus says multiple times that He was "sent" into the world. That His Father "sent" Him. He never says He was created, and the Bible explicitly says He was not. To contradict the Bible is heresy.

I do not deny any of Jesus' words. But when you say He did not exist till He was created, you deny many of them.

I hope the vast majority of Christians believe that Jesus, the Word, was God, became flesh, suffered and died as the spotless lamb of the new covenant, and rose again on the third day. Because this is what the Bible teaches.

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Good, you do not deny any of Jesus words. The father I the one true God, greater than the son, and greater than all

stuart lawrence said:

Good, you do not deny any of Jesus words. The father I the one true God and greater than the son, and greater than all

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And "the glory which I shared with you before the world began," "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath," "I am the good Shepherd" (not a servant of the good Shepherd), "Before Abraham was, I AM," "No one has seen God except the Son," "I have come down from heaven..."

stuart lawrence said:

The new covenant hinges on- has at it's foundation, not one core fact, but two. If I am totally honest, you are lost here, for your knowledge of what truly matters I poor. That is why you make the often absurd comments you do about your herezies and much else

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Not according to Jesus: "This is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

The new covenant depends entirely on Jesus blood. I will believe what God tells me in the Bible, and not what you tell me on some forum.

I love how you say "you people online" as though we only exist on this forum and as though you are not "online." Perhaps you have some little church that agrees with your heresy (which is not yours, but was started with the gnostics in the first and second centuries A.D.), but I assure you that is not what the majority of Christians believe.

nomadictheist said:

And "the glory which I shared with you before the world began," "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath," "I am the good Shepherd" (not a servant of the good Shepherd), "Before Abraham was, I AM," "No one has seen God except the Son," "I have come down from heaven..."

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And you think those statements mean Jesus lied when he said the father was the one true God and greater than he.
I will show you, your thinking is so wrong with your I AM quote
You are as good as saying God is an angel, even the JWS don't go that far!! Who ACTUALLY appeared to Moses from the burning bush???? So who did God speak through to Moses???

He was sent to be their leader and deliverer by God himself THROUGH the ANGEL who appeared to him in the bush Acts 7:35

So God spoke the words I AM through the angel.
Congratulations, you have now gone further than the jws and are beyond mainstream Christianity!

nomadictheist said:

Not according to Jesus: "This is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

The new covenant depends entirely on Jesus blood. I will believe what God tells me in the Bible, and not what you tell me on some forum.

I love how you say "you people online" as though we only exist on this forum and as though you are not "online." Perhaps you have some little church that agrees with your heresy (which is not yours, but was started with the gnostics in the first and second centuries A.D.), but I assure you that is not what the majority of Christians believe.

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I'm not going to spell it out to you, do some more studying, you might come to understand BOTH things at the core of the new covenant. Jesus told the disciples there was much more he wanted to tell them but they could not yet bear such knowledge, when the holy spirit came upon them he would lead them into all truth. Your academic mind cannot lead you into that truth

nomadictheist said:

Not according to Jesus: "This is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

The new covenant depends entirely on Jesus blood. I will believe what God tells me in the Bible, and not what you tell me on some forum.

I love how you say "you people online" as though we only exist on this forum and as though you are not "online." Perhaps you have some little church that agrees with your heresy (which is not yours, but was started with the gnostics in the first and second centuries A.D.), but I assure you that is not what the majority of Christians believe.

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I'm tired of your inability to understand the basics of the christian faith. You just go around hurling your accusations of heresy ro people who stand on christs words. One day you will have to answer for that my friend, and you wont have an audience to impress that day

stuart lawrence said:

And you think those statements mean Jesus lied when he said the father was the one true God and greater than he.
I will show you, your thinking is so wrong with your I AM quote
You are as good as saying God is an angel, even the JWS don't go that far!! Who ACTUALLY appeared to Moses from the burning bush???? So who did God speak through to Moses???

He was sent to be their leader and deliverer by God himself THROUGH the ANGEL who appeared to him in the bush Acts 7:35

So God spoke the words I AM through the angel.
Congratulations, you have now gone further than the jws and are beyond mainstream Christianity!

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This is an outright lie. There is nothing in Exodus 3 that says God spoke "through an angel."

"
Now Moses was keeping the flock of his father-in-law, Jethro, the priest of Midian, and he led his flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.” 4 When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

7 Then the Lord said, “I have surely seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters. I know their sufferings, 8 and I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a good and broad land, a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 And now, behold, the cry of the people of Israel has come to me, and I have also seen the oppression with which the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come, I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring my people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt.” 11 But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?” 12 He said, “But I will be with you, and this shall be the sign for you, that I have sent you: when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain.”

13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.”[a] And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’” 15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. 16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together and say to them, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me, saying, “I have observed you and what has been done to you in Egypt, 17 and I promise that I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt to the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, a land flowing with milk and honey.”’ 18 And they will listen to your voice, and you and the elders of Israel shall go to the king of Egypt and say to him, ‘The Lord, the God of the Hebrews, has met with us; and now, please let us go a three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God.’ 19 But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless compelled by a mighty hand.[c] 20 So I will stretch out my hand and strike Egypt with all the wonders that I will do in it; after that he will let you go. 21 And I will give this people favor in the sight of the Egyptians; and when you go, you shall not go empty, 22 but each woman shall ask of her neighbor, and any woman who lives in her house, for silver and gold jewelry, and for clothing. You shall put them on your sons and on your daughters. So you shall plunder the Egyptians.”
"

Nothing in this text says the angel was speaking or that God was speaking through the angel. There are plenty of places in the OT where an angel speaks to men, so if that's what the passage was supposed to say, that's what it would say. But it specifically says "God called to him from out of the bush."

Stop making up things that I supposedly believe. Start acknowledging what scripture says about Jesus, the Christ - all of it - not just some.

The new covenant has only one foundation, and that foundation is the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything more is heresy.

stuart lawrence said:

I'm tired of your inability to understand the basics of the christian faith. You just go around hurling your accusations of heresy ro people who stand on christs words. One day you will have to answer for that my friend, and you wont have an audience to impress that day

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I just quoted directly from Jesus. The new covenant is made in His blood.

I continually post scripture which you just ignore because, supposedly, the few verses that you have latched on to cancel out that scripture. They don't. The Bible must be understood as a whole, not as parts that contradict and/or cancel out each other.

The Bible says that the Word was God. That the Word was sent into the world by the Father, and that His name was Jesus. The Bible says that Jesus laid the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the work of His hands. If Jesus was a created being, as you say, then none of this could be true. But if Jesus is the Word of God, as the Bible says, then all of it must be true.