Would you support a 'Christian Zone'?

Butterfly99

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Oh great, this thread again.

Here's my summary:
OP: What if we made a Christian Zone?
Person 2: Ok, what would the laws be?
OP: It's a Christian zone! Christian laws!
Person 3: But that could mean an infinite number of things. We can see from the fractal nature of your religion that there would be disagreement. Whose idea of Christianity would rule?
Various Christians: Mine, of course! The right way!
Posters: Ok, but like 5 of you just said that. So you don't want a Christian Zone, you want a You Zone. Cool bro.

As long as I get to be a Lord. Or at least a vassal.

Thx for the summary. I've seen far more bickering among Christians on this forum than between Christians & nonbelievers. If there was a zone, then there'd be a lot of folks who are Christians who were kicked out of it cause their beliefs aren't the same as others. Then there's all the people who are born into the zone, & want to leave it. A lot of families would be splintered.
 
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Cearbhall

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Thx for the summary. I've seen far more bickering among Christians on this forum than between Christians & nonbelievers. If there was a zone, then there'd be a lot of folks who are Christians who were kicked out of it cause their beliefs aren't the same as others. Then there's all the people who are born into the zone, & want to leave it. A lot of families would be splintered.
I don't think I've ever met two Christians who agreed on everything. It would essentially become a bunch of people who each have their own tiny plot of land. In other words, exactly the way most of the rest of the world is. What's strange to me is that this thread suggests that some Christians think they're exempt from this inescapable system of disagreement and division among humans. It's one of the best demonstrations of the "us vs. them" mindset I've seen on here. Just look at the way that societal conflict is portrayed in the OP.
 
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Paradoxum

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Living separate from your sort means not having to twist every element of life so as to accommodate your sort.

What do you have to change to live with 'people like me'?

No whining about 'offensive ' Christmas Displays in the town square as one small example.

It's an extremely small example.

I don't mind Christmas displays in shops windows, and I like Christmas trees, lights, etc. But I don't think the State should promote religion. I don't think that harms you, or twists your life in any way.

No demands for homosexual wedding licenses at the court house for another.

That also doesn't affect you.

So where are twists in every area of your life? I want us to live together without religious preference. Isn't that fairness?
 
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keith99

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You understand well.

In the end there are to "real" Christians, thee and me, and I'm not so sure of thee.

But I'm an atheist! My friend Screwtape concedes you are a real Christian, but he is convinced your tempter is pursuing some very promising lines of attack.
 
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myownmynativeland

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What do you have to change to live with 'people like me'?



..............................

No doubt you would demand that I give up my Guns and Bibles. In my Town we open the Meetings of the Public School Board and Town Council with Prayer. Over half the Citizens Concealed Carry at those Meetings and a few Open Carry. We really have no desire to listen to your complaints. Its best we not have you for a neighbor.
 
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myownmynativeland

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............... I want us to live together without religious preference. Isn't that fairness?

Nope, that is YOU having it all your way. Why do you insist upon intruding on those who have no use for your company?
 
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TLK Valentine

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No doubt you would demand that I give up my Guns and Bibles. In my Town we open the Meetings of the Public School Board and Town Council with Prayer. Over half the Citizens Concealed Carry at those Meetings and a few Open Carry. We really have no desire to listen to your complaints. Its best we not have you for a neighbor.
Have you considered beating your gun into a plowshare?
 
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redleghunter

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Let's start with the premise that the Bible contains instruction from God how people should behave in a Godly society. Secular laws contain instruction about how people should behave in modern society. Many Christians believe that laws should reflect, to an extent, Biblical teaching because a) such teaching is better for society and b) it allows them to practice and share their faith without persecution. On the other hand, secular society, and some Christians, believe that the law should reflect the current morals of society, and that a religious group shouldn't impose their beliefs on others.

The dynamic of these counter opinions has led to an ongoing struggle between the two camps, and a situation where many Christians are made to feel they are being unreasonable, and are even attacked, for suggesting certain aspects of our faith should be reflected in legislation. In some countries, in Europe in particular, governments are even creating legislation that could make some aspects of living a Christian life, Biblical parenting for example, open to prosecution.

So let's run this thought experiment (a thought experiment for now at least):

Let's say we have a zone, a bare plot of land where no one currently lives. The intention would be to develop this empty land so it will have houses and businesses etc., but even before that happens it will have political autonomy: the developers/managers could make their own rules before they even start.

So these zone developers could make rules and laws that reflect Bible teachings. There could be no argument that such rules would be imposed on the unwilling, there is no existing population, and new arrivals know exactly what they are getting into from the start: they would be 'voting with their feet' to show they are at least tolerant of such rules.

So there would be a mandate for everything that is too much, or would cause outrage, in modern societies. So all the great controversial things could be enshrined in law: marriage would be between a man and women, school prayer could not be simply be allowed, it could be mandatory.

We could go further: public officials, judges, police and school principals would have to demonstrate a Christian faith, Christian organisations incentivized to come, ISP's obliged to filter inappropriate contentography etc. New residents would be asked to sign a declaration that they understand that are coming to a Christian zone, with all that entails (as they would do when enrolling a child in a Christian private school). And if people don't want any of that, well they don't have to come and live there.

The purpose of this relatively small zone would be to demonstrate that Biblical instruction works for society, and if anyone objects to that, well we say to them that we will grow and prosper if it is right, or fold and fail if it is not.

It could also be a place where World-weary or persecuted Christians could come and stay for a season, to re-charge before returning to their home countries.

Now, the questions to you are, if this were possible, would it be right to create such a zone? Would you support it? Would you move there? Would you help create it?

Why would one need to start such a society. The Amish already have such.

Yet even Paul said we govern within our churches and are in this world but not beholden to it.

I think it was the original intent of the NT church to be visible in the pagan world and be an example of Christ. Not to become like the pagans of course.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Vicomte13

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Matthew, I just saw this thread.

Here's the thing - God Himself set up such a community once. He gave it a piece of land, with definite boundaries, and saw to it that the people he gave that land to took possession of it largely intact, so they didn't have to start from scratch and build up an infrastructure. The farms and towns, etc., were already there.

God gave them all of their laws, directly. He set up a government that consisted only of judges. There was no legislative authority of any sort - he gave ALL of the laws, and did not give his people ANY means to change ANY law, nor impose any NEW laws. Nor did he give them any executive branch at all. He was the King, directly. When war came, he sent a Prophet, and used his power to ensure victory. And as for the judges, he not only set up the rules of procedure, but also gave a long list of decisions they had to render in various cases. And in case of doubt, he gave an oracle, Urim and Thummim, whereby the judges could always directly consult God to be CERTAIN that their judgments were correct and just.

This was ancient Israel, the only state that God every founded, ruled, and gave all of its laws.

What happened?

What happened is that certain aspects of human nature - for our minds are filled with evil since our youth - refused to obey the WHOLE law. In particular, above all else, men refused to limit themselves to the economic structures that God established, for THAT required actual agricultural physical labor by everybody. The harder jobs could not simply be pushed down on other people. The promise was only that each family would live in peace on its own farm, with its needs met. There was no power to aspire to, and no particular accumulation of wealth; also no want.

Had God been obeyed, there would have been virtually no poverty...and also no slavery either, except for foreign captives, who could become part of the community and escape slavery through religious conversion.

With all of that, men screwed it up. They would not live within the bounds God set. Some men followed the rules, but most refused to. They wanted MORE, for themselves.

There was never any promise of life after death in God's one state. Indeed, it was never mentioned. God's Kingdom, Israel, was temporal and secular: he was the King and lawmaker, and final judge. And the men who lived under that system rejected him as king, turned to men, and destroyed it all.

The Old Covenant failed, because the men with whom it was made would not follow it, and because all it offered was a farm.
So God made a New Convenant, but it's only personal. It is possible for those of the New Covenant to cooperate with each other - indeed that was one thing that Jesus asked of us - that we be united.

And that, we Christians refuse to do.

So Jesus provided the eternal life and the forgiveness - but whereas YHWH asked a great amount of obedience to a great number of laws of the ancient Hebrews - Jesus merely asked us to do one thing: be united. And we refuse to do it. We think that our made-up differences and our intellectual theologies, which Jesus never gave, are MORE IMPORTANT than setting that aside to follow Jesus' one request that requires us to do something we don't want to do - BE UNIFIED.

We don't think that's important. God asked that of us, prayed for it for us. But we think our theological reasoning is MORE IMPORTANT than a direct request to us from God.

And therefore we are left to our bickering, weakness and impotence - by God.

For if we were united, we would, through our common voices, rule the world.

That's the truth.

God will NOT LET US have a "zone" to separate. We will do it HIS WAY, and unite, and stop being Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, and be united - or he will keep knocking us down and let the world rule us in our division. Because THEY unite, under governments and causes.

So, what we should be talking about is UNITY, and how to get there. Do that, and the whole world is ours.

Refuse, and we defy God, and he will knock it all down. Our pride will not stand against God.
 
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TLK Valentine

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No doubt you would demand that I give up my Guns and Bibles. In my Town we open the Meetings of the Public School Board and Town Council with Prayer. Over half the Citizens Concealed Carry at those Meetings and a few Open Carry. We really have no desire to listen to your complaints. Its best we not have you for a neighbor.

And suppose we decide to be your neighbor anyway... how does your community handle diversity?
 
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Moxie123

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Now, the questions to you are, if this were possible, would it be right to create such a zone? Would you support it? Would you move there? Would you help create it?

The Amish have done this already and succeeded! :)

Yes, I would like to visit a Christian "reservation" just for followers of Christ. I could certainly assist on a development committee.

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People are already doing this without having to go to a physical land to do it. Instead of creating a land away from the secular world, they learn how to defend God's law in a secular world, outside of court, and require secular authorities to recognize God's law. It can be done, but it requires a lot of study and vigilance.
 
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