Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

Der Alter said:

Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2:6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.

What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?

Philippians 2:6-11 6. Who, being [continual existence] in the form [μορφη] of God, thought it not robbery [something to be grasped] to be equal with God:

(Greek Interlinear) Philippians 2:6-11 ος {who,} εν {in [the]} μορφη {form} θεου {of god} υπαρχων {subsisting,} ουχ {not} αρπαγμον {something to be used to his own advantage} ηγησατο το {esteemed it} ειναι {the being} ισα {equal} θεω {with god;}​

The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense. “the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and rejected.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him[self] the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:​

Jesus’ earthly ministry occurred between verses, 7 and 8. Where the one who was equal with God, vs. 6, the one who, acting upon himself, became flesh, cf. John 1:14, made himself of no reputation, vs. 7, cf. Heb 2:17, took upon himself the form of a servant, and was in the likeness of men, vs. 7. After which God, not merely exalted him, but “highly exalted” him, and glorified him with the same glory he had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5)

It was here where all the things anti-Trinitarians cannot comprehend happened, e.g. “If Jesus was God, why didn’t he know the hour of his return,””If Jesus was God, how could the Father be greater than Jesus?” etc., etc., etc.

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​

If Jesus was only a mere human being, how does a human being, “humble himself and become obedient unto death?” All mankind is appointed to death, no obedience or humbling involved! Heb 9:27. Were the criminals who were crucified with Jesus also obedient, did they also humble themselves unto death on the cross?

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, cf. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, cf. [ יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] to the glory of God the Father.​

In verses 10,11 Paul applies Isaiah 45:23, which refers to יהוה/YHWH], to Jesus as I have shown above!

The Committee on Bible Translation worked at updating the New International Version of the Bible to be published in 2011.

In it's notes under "Progress in Scholarship" it discusses the following change:

When the NIV was first translated, the meaning of the rare Greek word αρπαγμον /harpagmos, rendered ‟something to be grasped,” in Philippians 2:6 was uncertain. But further study has shown that the word refers to something that a person has in their possession but chooses not to use to their own advantage. The updated NIV reflects this new information, making clear that Jesus really was equal with God when he determined to become a human for our sake: ‟[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.”​

See full translators notes at: Bible Gateway NIV Translator’s Notes​

A short excerpt from the 25 page Harvard theological review article αρπαγμον /harpagmos, by Roy Hoover, referenced in the NIV.

‘O petros de arpagmon ton dia stavrou thanton epoieito dia tas soterious elpidas”

(And Peter considered death by means of the cross harpagmon on account of the hope of salvation, Comm in Luc 6)

“Tines…ton thanaton arpagma themenoi ten ton dussebon moxtherias”

(Since some regarded death as harpagma in comparison with the depravity of ungodly men. Hist. Eccl VCIII,12.2)

Not only are arpagma and arpagmos used synonymously in these two statements, but they are used synonymously by the same author in reference to the same object—death—and in expressions whose form precisely parallels that of the arpagmos remark in Phil 2:6.

What [Eusebius] wants to say, rather, is that because of the hope of salvation crucifixion was not a horror to be shunned, but an advantage to be seized.

“Arpagma” is used exactly this way in Hist. Eccl. VIII,12.2. At this point Eusebius is recounting the sufferings of Christians in periods of persecution. Some believers in order to escape torture threw themselves down from rooftops. There can be no suggestion of “robbery” or of violent self-assertion in this remark, nor can self-inflicted death under such circumstances be considered an unanticipated windfall.

Roy W. Hoover, Harvard Theological Review (1971) 95-119, pg. 108

Link to: Hoover Article​

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Luke 10:21

nomadictheist said:

No. You have much scripture only to support that God is the God of Christ Jesus. You cannot with this throw out 1 John 1, Hebrews 1, enormous portions of Revelation, 1 Corinthians 8, and so forth. Jesus is the Word of God, Who is God. This is plainly stated in scripture. Therefore, this must be reconciled with the rest of scripture.

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You have not one verse of scripture from the entire bible that states Christ is the one true God. I have very plain scripture that states only the father is

nomadictheist said:

You didn't answer the question.

Who laid the foundations of the earth? Whose hands stretched out the heavens?

According to this, it was Jesus. According to the Genesis account, it was God. Does the Bible contradict itself, or is Jesus God?

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Here is the answer, I can just recite scripture:
Yet for us there is ONE GOD, the father, FROM whom all things came and for whom we live, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom all things came and through whom we live 1cor8:6

stuart lawrence said:

Lol. When i pointed out your error( answered your question) concerning psalms 110:1 you had to ignore the answer. THREE TIMES I asked you to respond, every time you refused. One thing at a time.
I will ask you a FOURTH TIME psalms 110:1 & zech 14:9 please explain how they go together
So you refuse to respond to any questions put to you? Why are you here then, Thi I a debating forum?
If you cannot answer ANY questions put to you that shows a lack of knowledge

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Hi, (edits done)

If I don't understand you, it is hard to answer you, clearly.

As a display to you, I will respond to your question. But, I will not discuss that yet, until I understand, you better.

I expect you to answer my Begotten Question now, and a few more.

Zechariah 14:9.

9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day the Lord will be one and his name one.

Psalms 110:1.

1 The Lord says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.”

Wow, you are possibly asking for things that have not been revealed yet.

Let's see.

Jesus said somewhere that all that He has He will share or give over to His Father one day.

Assuming Jesus will give everything back to His Father, who is The Lord there, both in Psalms 110:1, and in Zechariah 14:1, but also in your verse of Zechariah 14:9, then it seems to say here, that the Dad, of Jesus, will one day be King over everything.

The Lord, Who is God The Father, in many places in The Old Teatament, on His being one and His name also one, that will take some time.

Oneness to God, means Trinitarian Oneness, but also oneness in purpose, feelings, goals and desires.

Trintarianness, with God, Is, and always was Internal Trinitarianness.

Since Jesus, was Begotten, and The Holy Spirit was Sent, (Sent is analogous and identical to Begotten apart from... nothing really. If anything it is in personality, and of that even in me, personality I don't understand yet. It is possibly, a set of interactions and experiences, and how I would interpret those.), God's Internal Trinitarianness, was now external Trinitarianness also, but, and.

God, who became, if Begotten is still allowed here, a father by Begetting a son, never ever and probably never will give up nor change, His Internal Trinitarianness.

Jesus and The Holy Spirit are Internally Trinitarian Also, but. But off the topic.

So, in that day discussed, the oneness may be several things.

One thing it might be, because here in these two passages, there is none of the rest of the Bible, nor Do I remember All of The Bible now, with those conditions only, It could be God The Father Will Unbeget His External Son and He Will Unbeget (Unsent) His Holy Spirit.

Thus Both Jesus and The Holy Sprit will only exist within The Father again, but as separate persons now, rather than be Unbegotten Totally, or Unsent Totally.

In light of that, perhaps what you don't know, The Container that was Stretched Out, and in which the entire known and the entire unknown, and so far unseen, universe resides in, perhaps in those days, rather than that container be of Jesus, it will be instead of The Father, and in there we, all of Creation for later, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit will Live, thus, The Father, called The Lord in both Psalms 110:1, and Zechariah 14, will Father Jesus, and The Holy Spirit also, in not only The Ways He Does Now, but also, in that other way, being the Space within which, we, and Jesus will live.

However, The extent to which I have gone, to try and answer a question for you, is just a demonstration of how far I will go.

LOVE,

stuart lawrence said:

Here is the answer, I can just recite scripture:
Yet for us there is ONE GOD, the father, FROM whom all things came and for whom we live, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom all things came and through whom we live 1cor8:6

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I ask you again, does scripture contradict itself, or is Jesus God?

You don't like answering questions, do you.

Hebrews 1:8-12
"8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
10 And,

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.[a]
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”

You will not say who you believe Jesus, the Word of God, Who is God, is. You will not answer the question of whether the Bible contradicts itself or Jesus is God. Yet you demand that everyone on this forum answer to you, when you will not even answer simple questions.

Der Alter said:

Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2:6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.

What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?

Philippians 2:6-11 6. Who, being [continual existence] in the form [μορφη] of God, thought it not robbery [something to be grasped] to be equal with God:

(Greek Interlinear) Philippians 2:6-11 ος {who,} εν {in [the]} μορφη {form} θεου {of god} υπαρχων {subsisting,} ουχ {not} αρπαγμον {something to be used to his own advantage} ηγησατο το {esteemed it} ειναι {the being} ισα {equal} θεω {with god;}​

The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense. “the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and rejected.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him[self] the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:​

Jesus’ earthly ministry occurred between verses, 7 and 8. Where the one who was equal with God, vs. 6, the one who, acting upon himself, became flesh, cf. John 1:14, made himself of no reputation, vs. 7, cf. Heb 2:17, took upon himself the form of a servant, and was in the likeness of men, vs. 7. After which God, not merely exalted him, but “highly exalted” him, and glorified him with the same glory he had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5)

It was here where all the things anti-Trinitarians cannot comprehend happened, e.g. “If Jesus was God, why didn’t he know the hour of his return,””If Jesus was God, how could the Father be greater than Jesus?” etc., etc., etc.

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​

If Jesus was only a mere human being, how does a human being, “humble himself and become obedient unto death?” All mankind is appointed to death, no obedience or humbling involved! Heb 9:27. Were the criminals who were crucified with Jesus also obedient, did they also humble themselves unto death on the cross?

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, cf. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, cf. [ יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] to the glory of God the Father.​

In verses 10,11 Paul applies Isaiah 45:23, which refers to יהוה/YHWH], to Jesus as I have shown above!

The Committee on Bible Translation worked at updating the New International Version of the Bible to be published in 2011.

In it's notes under "Progress in Scholarship" it discusses the following change:

When the NIV was first translated, the meaning of the rare Greek word αρπαγμον /harpagmos, rendered ‟something to be grasped,” in Philippians 2:6 was uncertain. But further study has shown that the word refers to something that a person has in their possession but chooses not to use to their own advantage. The updated NIV reflects this new information, making clear that Jesus really was equal with God when he determined to become a human for our sake: ‟[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.”​

See full translators notes at: Bible Gateway NIV Translator’s Notes​

A short excerpt from the 25 page Harvard theological review article αρπαγμον /harpagmos, by Roy Hoover, referenced in the NIV.

‘O petros de arpagmon ton dia stavrou thanton epoieito dia tas soterious elpidas”

(And Peter considered death by means of the cross harpagmon on account of the hope of salvation, Comm in Luc 6)

“Tines…ton thanaton arpagma themenoi ten ton dussebon moxtherias”

(Since some regarded death as harpagma in comparison with the depravity of ungodly men. Hist. Eccl VCIII,12.2)

Not only are arpagma and arpagmos used synonymously in these two statements, but they are used synonymously by the same author in reference to the same object—death—and in expressions whose form precisely parallels that of the arpagmos remark in Phil 2:6.

What [Eusebius] wants to say, rather, is that because of the hope of salvation crucifixion was not a horror to be shunned, but an advantage to be seized.

“Arpagma” is used exactly this way in Hist. Eccl. VIII,12.2. At this point Eusebius is recounting the sufferings of Christians in periods of persecution. Some believers in order to escape torture threw themselves down from rooftops. There can be no suggestion of “robbery” or of violent self-assertion in this remark, nor can self-inflicted death under such circumstances be considered an unanticipated windfall.

Roy W. Hoover, Harvard Theological Review (1971) 95-119, pg. 108

Link to: Hoover Article​

Click to expand...

I do not disagree with that. However, I believe the Bible indicates that the Father is the authoritative figure in the Godhead. I don't believe (though I could be wrong) that I gave the impression that I believe Jesus not to be God.

nomadictheist said:

I ask you again, does scripture contradict itself, or is Jesus God?

You don't like answering questions, do you.

Hebrews 1:8-12
"8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
10 And,

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.[a]
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”

You will not say who you believe Jesus, the Word of God, Who is God, is. You will not answer the question of whether the Bible contradicts itself or Jesus is God. Yet you demand that everyone on this forum answer to you, when you will not even answer simple questions.

Click to expand...

I have already plainly answered you, however, you have yet to respond to two of my questions.
Christ has the title God but the father I the one TRUE God. By Jesus stating the father I the only true God he confirms that in biblical times more than one had the title God. Those to whom the message came were referred to as Gods. No, scripture does not contradict itself so when Jesus makes plain statements do not try to build a doctrine that opposes them, but a doctrine that supports them john 14:28& john 17:3

stuart lawrence said:

I have already plainly answered you, however, you have yet to respond to two of my questions.
Christ has the title God but the father I the one TRUE God. By Jesus stating the father I the only true God he confirms that in biblical times more than one had the title God. Those to whom the message came were referred to as Gods. No, scripture does not contradict itself so when Jesus makes plain statements do not try to build a doctrine that opposes them, but a doctrine that supports them john 14:28& john 17:3

Click to expand...

I already answered your questions. As I said, all must be taken with the rest of scripture.

There is only one God, but there are three "persons" in the Bible which are said in no uncertain terms to be God. (Thus the doctrine of the trinity).

"Greater" does not necessarily mean more powerful, or greater in essence, though we must at that time remember that Jesus had abandoned His divine form to become a human. "The one true God" does not exclude any part of the Godhead, as each person of the Godhead is equally God in essence, though they function differently.

We are told in no uncertain terms in Hebrews that Jesus (the Word) created the heavens and the earth. We are also told in no uncertain terms that God created the heavens and the earth. John 1 helps tie this all together for us and explain how that is possible.

Jesus also made other plain statements, such as "Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father" (and how could that be true unless He were one in essence with the Father?), "I and the Father are One", "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath", and "Before Abraham was, I am."

nomadictheist said:

I already answered your questions. As I said, all must be taken with the rest of scripture.

There is only one God, but there are three "persons" in the Bible which are said in no uncertain terms to be God. (Thus the doctrine of the trinity).

"Greater" does not necessarily mean more powerful, or greater in essence, though we must at that time remember that Jesus had abandoned His divine form to become a human. "The one true God" does not exclude any part of the Godhead, as each person of the Godhead is equally God in essence, though they function differently.

We are told in no uncertain terms in Hebrews that Jesus (the Word) created the heavens and the earth. We are also told in no uncertain terms that God created the heavens and the earth. John 1 helps tie this all together for us and explain how that is possible.

Jesus also made other plain statements, such as "Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father" (and how could that be true unless He were one in essence with the Father?), "I and the Father are One", "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath", and "Before Abraham was, I am."

Click to expand...

I have already quoted Paul. Everything comes FROM the father THROUGH the son. And in that verse Paul confirms the christian has one ( true) God, the father, and one lord, Jesus Christ

I and the father are one john 10:30 A good example of misunderstanding what is meant
Jesus prayed to the father that they( the believers) may be one as( AS) we are one.
How could you and I be one? You cannot be me nor i you, but we can be of one heart and mind in the spirit. And Jesus prayed:
That they may be one AS we are one.

Why could Jesus speak the words of God on Thi earth? Please respond

Der Alter said:

Previous post reposted

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Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2:6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.

What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?


The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense. “the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and rejected.

Jesus’ earthly ministry occurred between verses, 7 and 8. Where the one who was equal with God, vs. 6, the one who, acting upon himself, became flesh, cf. John 1:14, made himself of no reputation, vs. 7, cf. Heb 2:17, took upon himself the form of a servant, and was in the likeness of men, vs. 7. After which God, not merely exalted him, but “highly exalted” him, and glorified him with the same glory he had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5)

It was here where all the things anti-Trinitarians cannot comprehend happened, e.g. “If Jesus was God, why didn’t he know the hour of his return,””If Jesus was God, how could the Father be greater than Jesus?” etc., etc., etc.

If Jesus was only a mere human being, how does a human being, “humble himself and become obedient unto death?” All mankind is appointed to death, no obedience or humbling involved! Heb 9:27. Were the criminals who were crucified with Jesus also obedient, did they also humble themselves unto death on the cross?


In verses 10,11 Paul applies Isaiah 45:23, which refers to יהוה/YHWH], to Jesus as I have shown above!

A short excerpt from the 25 page Harvard theological review article αρπαγμον /harpagmos, by Roy Hoover, referenced in the NIV.

stuart lawrence said:

Luke 10:21

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Does not address my post in any way.

stuart lawrence said:

I have already quoted Paul. Everything comes FROM the father THROUGH the son. And in that verse Paul confirms the christian has one ( true) God, the father, and one lord, Jesus Christ

I and the father are one john 10:30 A good example of misunderstanding what is meant
Jesus prayed to the father that they( the believers) may be one as( AS) we are one.
How could you and I be one? You cannot be me nor i you, but we can be of one heart and mind in the spirit. And Jesus prayed:
That they may be one AS we are one.

Why could Jesus speak the words of God on Thi earth? Please respond

Click to expand...

Umm... Because He was God? I should think that would be pretty simple to understand.

Der Alter said:

Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2:6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.

What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?

Philippians 2:6-11 6. Who, being [continual existence] in the form [μορφη] of God, thought it not robbery [something to be grasped] to be equal with God:

(Greek Interlinear) Philippians 2:6-11 ος {who,} εν {in [the]} μορφη {form} θεου {of god} υπαρχων {subsisting,} ουχ {not} αρπαγμον {something to be used to his own advantage} ηγησατο το {esteemed it} ειναι {the being} ισα {equal} θεω {with god;}​

The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense. “the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and rejected.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him[self] the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:​

Jesus’ earthly ministry occurred between verses, 7 and 8. Where the one who was equal with God, vs. 6, the one who, acting upon himself, became flesh, cf. John 1:14, made himself of no reputation, vs. 7, cf. Heb 2:17, took upon himself the form of a servant, and was in the likeness of men, vs. 7. After which God, not merely exalted him, but “highly exalted” him, and glorified him with the same glory he had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5)

It was here where all the things anti-Trinitarians cannot comprehend happened, e.g. “If Jesus was God, why didn’t he know the hour of his return,””If Jesus was God, how could the Father be greater than Jesus?” etc., etc., etc.

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​

If Jesus was only a mere human being, how does a human being, “humble himself and become obedient unto death?” All mankind is appointed to death, no obedience or humbling involved! Heb 9:27. Were the criminals who were crucified with Jesus also obedient, did they also humble themselves unto death on the cross?

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, cf. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, cf. [ יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] to the glory of God the Father.​

In verses 10,11 Paul applies Isaiah 45:23, which refers to יהוה/YHWH], to Jesus as I have shown above!

The Committee on Bible Translation worked at updating the New International Version of the Bible to be published in 2011.

In it's notes under "Progress in Scholarship" it discusses the following change:

When the NIV was first translated, the meaning of the rare Greek word αρπαγμον /harpagmos, rendered ‟something to be grasped,” in Philippians 2:6 was uncertain. But further study has shown that the word refers to something that a person has in their possession but chooses not to use to their own advantage. The updated NIV reflects this new information, making clear that Jesus really was equal with God when he determined to become a human for our sake: ‟[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.”​

See full translators notes at: Bible Gateway NIV Translator’s Notes​

A short excerpt from the 25 page Harvard theological review article αρπαγμον /harpagmos, by Roy Hoover, referenced in the NIV.

‘O petros de arpagmon ton dia stavrou thanton epoieito dia tas soterious elpidas”

(And Peter considered death by means of the cross harpagmon on account of the hope of salvation, Comm in Luc 6)

“Tines…ton thanaton arpagma themenoi ten ton dussebon moxtherias”

(Since some regarded death as harpagma in comparison with the depravity of ungodly men. Hist. Eccl VCIII,12.2)

Not only are arpagma and arpagmos used synonymously in these two statements, but they are used synonymously by the same author in reference to the same object—death—and in expressions whose form precisely parallels that of the arpagmos remark in Phil 2:6.

What [Eusebius] wants to say, rather, is that because of the hope of salvation crucifixion was not a horror to be shunned, but an advantage to be seized.

“Arpagma” is used exactly this way in Hist. Eccl. VIII,12.2. At this point Eusebius is recounting the sufferings of Christians in periods of persecution. Some believers in order to escape torture threw themselves down from rooftops. There can be no suggestion of “robbery” or of violent self-assertion in this remark, nor can self-inflicted death under such circumstances be considered an unanticipated windfall.

Roy W. Hoover, Harvard Theological Review (1971) 95-119, pg. 108

Link to: Hoover Article​

Does not address my post in any way.

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Oh it does, it certainly does!!

nomadictheist said:

Umm... Because He was God? I should think that would be pretty simple to understand.

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I thought that would be you reply, that I how all equal trinitarians reply

For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the spirit without limit john3:34

And the holy spirit descended on him in BODILY FORM like a dove Luke3:22

Der Alter said:

I define words in scripture by the meaning/definition of the Hebrew/Greek word in the manuscripts. The word translated "fool" in Psalms 14:1 and Psalms 53:1 , is נבל /nabal, the definition is posted below.

נבל nâbâl naw-bawl'
From H5034; stupid; wicked (especially impious): - fool (-ish, -ish man, -ish woman), vile person.​

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Hi Dear, (Edits finally done)

Everyone else here, this man has earned that kindness long ago, long ago. Do not misinterpret my words. They are respectful also.

Let me tell you of my understanding. In Proverbs 1,2 or 3, it is said that Fear of The Lord is choice.

And, for some others not you, fear of The Lord, at it's most pure form, is fear of hurting God's feelings.

It is though, (hang in here please), through fear of The Lord, that wisdom from God, starts being given to us, along with The Knowledge of God, meaning things that are TRUE about Him.

'wisdom' from God, through the "normal" way God imparts that Knowledge, also includes knowledge of people interactions, and things, material things on earth, but on a need to know basis.,

That Knowledge, elevates even simple people, into wiser ones.,

Thus, the description you gave me, is a result of not choosing God, but.

But, it is hard without wisdom, to understand what God means by choosing Him.

So, I will not discuss that here, yet.

Now, for all, God defines a fool as one who does not fear Him. It's in Proverbs, I think.

LOVE,

stuart lawrence said:

I have already quoted Paul. Everything comes FROM the father THROUGH the son. And in that verse Paul confirms the christian has one ( true) God, the father, and one lord, Jesus Christ

I and the father are one john 10:30 A good example of misunderstanding what is meant
Jesus prayed to the father that they( the believers) may be one as( AS) we are one.
How could you and I be one? You cannot be me nor i you, but we can be of one heart and mind in the spirit. And Jesus prayed:
That they may be one AS we are one.

Why could Jesus speak the words of God on Thi earth? Please respond

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Also, Jesus could not possibly mean in the exact same way that He and the Father are one. Because in the same prayer He says that He and the Father are one in glory. Again, you need to translate scripture in context with the rest of scripture.

So when we look at these sayings in context, the meaning becomes clear. In this context, it is clear that we will not share the same glory as the Father, so Jesus cannot mean exactly the same way He and the Father are one, so you are correct in translating this to mean one in spirit.

Now let's look at the context of the other usage.

At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

40 He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing at first, and there he remained. 41 And many came to him. And they said, “John did no sign, but everything that John said about this man was true.” 42 And many believed in him there.

The Jews understood here that Jesus was saying He was God. And Jesus did not deny it. So why do you?

stuart lawrence said:

I thought that would be you reply, that I how all equal trinitarians reply

For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the spirit without limit john3:34

And the holy spirit descended on him in BODILY FORM like a dove Luke3:22

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I don't recall denying that.

And what precisely is an "equal" trinitarian? Do you believe in an "unequal" trinity then, or do you believe in polytheism?

nomadictheist said:

Also, Jesus could not possibly mean in the exact same way that He and the Father are one. Because in the same prayer He says that He and the Father are one in glory. Again, you need to translate scripture in context with the rest of scripture.

So when we look at these sayings in context, the meaning becomes clear. In this context, it is clear that we will not share the same glory as the Father, so Jesus cannot mean exactly the same way He and the Father are one, so you are correct in translating this to mean one in spirit.

Now let's look at the context of the other usage.

At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

40 He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing at first, and there he remained. 41 And many came to him. And they said, “John did no sign, but everything that John said about this man was true.” 42 And many believed in him there.

The Jews understood here that Jesus was saying He was God. And Jesus did not deny it. So why do you?

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I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one AS( AS) we are one
I in them and you in me. May they be Brough to COMPLETE UNITY john 17:22&23
The Jews inserted, We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he CLAIMED to be the SON of God john 19:7

nomadictheist said:

I don't recall denying that.

And what precisely is an "equal" trinitarian? Do you believe in an "unequal" trinity then, or do you believe in polytheism?

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The majority of people who attend Trinitarian churches believe in an unequal trinity. But on these websites it is different, the would be scholar/ theologian sticks to the official church doctrine, that FEW ministers will plainly state from the pulpit

nomadictheist said:

I don't recall denying that.

And what precisely is an "equal" trinitarian? Do you believe in an "unequal" trinity then, or do you believe in polytheism?

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Perhaps der altar can point us to one of his sermons where he plainly states from the pulpit:
If you believe Jesus is the son of God but not the one true God, you are condemned( the official Trinitarian doctrine all the mainline Trinitarian churches are signed up to)

Hi @stuart lawrence ,

katerinah1947 said:

Hi, (edits done)

If I don't understand you, it is hard to answer you, clearly.

As a display to you, I will respond to your question. But, I will not discuss that yet, until I understand, you better.

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I expect you to answer my Begotten Question now, and a few more.

Zechariah 14:9.

9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day the Lord will be one and his name one.

Psalms 110:1.

1 The Lord says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.”

Wow, you are possibly asking for things that have not been revealed yet.

Let's see.

Jesus said somewhere that all that He has He will share or give over to His Father one day.

Assuming Jesus will give everything back to His Father, who is The Lord there, both in Psalms 110:1, and in Zechariah 14:1, but also in your verse of Zechariah 14:9, then it seems to say here, that the Dad, of Jesus, will one day be King over everything.

The Lord, Who is God The Father, in many places in The Old Teatament, on His being one and His name also one, that will take some time.

Oneness to God, means Trinitarian Oneness, but also oneness in purpose, feelings, goals and desires.

Trintarianness, with God, Is, and always was Internal Trinitarianness.

Since Jesus, was Begotten, and The Holy Spirit was Sent, (Sent is analogous and identical to Begotten apart from... nothing really. If anything it is in personality, and of that even in me, personality I don't understand yet. It is possibly, a set of interactions and experiences, and how I would interpret those.), God's Internal Trinitarianness, was now external Trinitarianness also, but, and.

God, who became, if Begotten is still allowed here, a father by Begetting a son, never ever and probably never will give up nor change, His Internal Trinitarianness.

Jesus and The Holy Spirit are Internally Trinitarian Also, but. But off the topic.

So, in that day discussed, the oneness may be several things.

One thing it might be, because here in these two passages, there is none of the rest of the Bible, nor Do I remember All of The Bible now, with those conditions only, It could be God The Father Will Unbeget His External Son and He Will Unbeget (Unsent) His Holy Spirit.

Thus Both Jesus and The Holy Sprit will only exist within The Father again, but as separate persons now, rather than be Unbegotten Totally, or Unsent Totally.

In light of that, perhaps what you don't know, The Container that was Stretched Out, and in which the entire known and the entire unknown, and so far unseen, universe resides in, perhaps in those days, rather than that container be of Jesus, it will be instead of The Father, and in there we, all of Creation for later, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit will Live, thus, The Father, called The Lord in both Psalms 110:1, and Zechariah 14, will Father Jesus, and The Holy Spirit also, in not only The Ways He Does Now, but also, in that other way, being the Space within which, we, and Jesus will live.

However, The extent to which I have gone, to try and answer a question for you, is just a demonstration of how far I will go.

LOVE,

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LOVE,