I'm glad we are dust in the wind

Some say religion is escapism, but you've stated the very best escapism.

For Western Christians yesterday was Ash Wednesday. We receive ashes on our foreheads, marks that remind us of our mortality & call us to repentance.

I think of the creation narrative in our Scriptures. God took the ashes, the dust - the stardust of years past - breathing life into it.

I don't understand things beyond understanding. I don't think life is meaningless - though I can see how thinking life is meaningless could be a relief in some way. I just have hope.

Meaning is something we create and imbue things with.

A rock in the desert can become the most holy site for millions of people. Tiny symbols, drawn, etched, or otherwise applied, can communicate complex thoughts and feelings.

Life isn't meaningless in any way that's relevant to us. But that meaning comes from within, not without.

As for errors: I must LIVE with them, LEARN from them, potentially REMEDY them, if possible. That is far more responsibility than the escapism provided by religious afterlife fantasies, where you can basically dismiss this life as a mere prelude.

cloudyday2 said:

It's interesting that religions seek to create meaning and an eternal afterlife, but freedom is realizing that nothing we do matters at all. We all die. Those who remember us die. Our societies die. Our religions die. Our sun dies. Love dies. Pain dies.

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Murdering someone doesn't matter? Sure, in the grand scheme of things, but everything we do means something in the small scale that we live within.

I really agree much more with cloudyday on this. Meaning is either something real or it's not. I've never understood how anyone could ever be satisfied either intellectually or emotionally with "creating" or "imbuing" something that they know isn't real.

cloudyday2 said:

It's interesting that religions seek to create meaning and an eternal afterlife, but freedom is realizing that nothing we do matters at all. We all die. Those who remember us die. Our societies die. Our religions die. Our sun dies. Love dies. Pain dies.

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With 1640 posts on this forum, without meaning?

Why not just sit on a chair with arms folded and wait to die?

When you assign value to meaning, it must be in some kind of contextual reference.
Einstein died.. Did his life have meaning to you and I?? Probably far more than most people are capable of understanding.

What you do in this life matters to other people..
A lot of things in life are not about the end, its about the journey to the end.

One of my favorite discussions with people of religion is to ask them to contemplate what happens AFTER they die and go to their version of heaven.
They live for eternity? Doing what? Sitting with their arms crossed in a chair? (LOL).. Eternity sound pretty boring..

I think the only thing worse than dying, is wishing you were.... There's a bit of shallowness in that statement, but you get the point.

cloudyday2 said:

I was thinking about this today. Life is meaningless, and that is a relief. What I do right doesn't last, but what I do wrong doesn't last either. I do far more wrong than right, so that is why I'm glad.

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While that might be true, you are also accumulating those right things through out your life (such as wisdom, relatioinships, experience, ability, may be wealth too). And they will become a fortune when you are old. If you were right, you will have to let it disappeared too. I don't feel that is a good thing to happen.

There ARE something good and something bad in the world. The situation you described is not good. So, the chances are, it is not likely to be the case.

cloudyday2 said:

It's interesting that religions seek to create meaning and an eternal afterlife, but freedom is realizing that nothing we do matters at all. We all die. Those who remember us die. Our societies die. Our religions die. Our sun dies. Love dies. Pain dies.

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Not good. Something must be wrong.

Murby said:

One of my favorite discussions with people of religion is to ask them to contemplate what happens AFTER they die and go to their version of heaven.
They live for eternity? Doing what? Sitting with their arms crossed in a chair? (LOL).. Eternity sound pretty boring..

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That is an excellent question. I do not know what my future job would be. But I know one thing:
If I need time to perfect something, I will have all the time I need and I CAN do it perfectly.
You must know how many things you like to do but don't have time to do them. Needless to say to do everyone of them perfectly. Well, in eternity, this impossible problem is solved.

juvenissun said:

You must know how many things you like to do but don't have time to do them. Needless to say to do everyone of them perfectly. Well, in eternity, this impossible problem is solved.

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You are not giving eternity the respect it deserves.. Very difficult concept to comprehend for most people.. Like our Universe being infinite.. its almost impossible to comprehend so we sub-consciously establish boarders and limits without realizing it.
You could do everything you imagine and things you can't imagine.. you could travel the universe and see everything there is to see.. eventually, you're going to get bored.. very bored.. Even if you see new things, you are not going to want to be around forever... then what?

Words like eternity, forever, infinite, etc are almost impossible for most (all?) people to understand because we live a linear existence with a start and an end.

Religion pretends to remove the "end" of that equation. Not practical, not possible, not even desirable when you really think about it.

Murby said:

You are not giving eternity the respect it deserves.. Very difficult concept to comprehend for most people.. Like our Universe being infinite.. its almost impossible to comprehend so we sub-consciously establish boarders and limits without realizing it.
You could do everything you imagine and things you can't imagine.. you could travel the universe and see everything there is to see.. eventually, you're going to get bored.. very bored.. Even if you see new things, you are not going to want to be around forever... then what?

Words like eternity, forever, infinite, etc are almost impossible for most (all?) people to understand because we live a linear existence with a start and an end.

Religion pretends to remove the "end" of that equation. Not practical, not possible, not even desirable when you really think about it.

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"Because children have abounding vitality, because they are in spirit fierce and free, therefore they want things repeated and unchanged. They always say, "Do it again"; and the grown-up person does it again until he is nearly dead. For grown-up people are not strong enough to exult in monotony. But perhaps God is strong enough to exult in monotony. It is possible that God says every morning, "Do it again" to the sun; and every evening, "Do it again" to the moon. It may not be automatic necessity that makes all daisies alike; it may be that God makes every daisy separately, but has never got tired of making them. It may be that He has the eternal appetite of infancy; for we have sinned and grown old, and our Father is younger than we." - G.K.C.

Beatific Vision

I'm glad we are dust in the wind

cloudyday2 said:

I was thinking about this today. Life is meaningless, and that is a relief. What I do right doesn't last, but what I do wrong doesn't last either. I do far more wrong than right, so that is why I'm glad.

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This reminds me of the book of Ecclesiastes.

The title of your thread reminds me of this:

Murby said:

You are not giving eternity the respect it deserves.. Very difficult concept to comprehend for most people.. Like our Universe being infinite.. its almost impossible to comprehend so we sub-consciously establish boarders and limits without realizing it.
You could do everything you imagine and things you can't imagine.. you could travel the universe and see everything there is to see.. eventually, you're going to get bored.. very bored.. Even if you see new things, you are not going to want to be around forever... then what?

Words like eternity, forever, infinite, etc are almost impossible for most (all?) people to understand because we live a linear existence with a start and an end.

Religion pretends to remove the "end" of that equation. Not practical, not possible, not even desirable when you really think about it.

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Because what we know is limited, so you think what can we do is also limited.
Because what we can imagine is limited, so you are more convinced that what we can do is limited.
But, even our current experience/knowledge suggests to us: The possibility in this universe is unlimited. And the number of universes may also be unlimited.

I do expect that I would have 100 years to learn how to sing a song in a perfect way, and I would learn how does the sun really work in 100,000 years.

cloudyday2 said:

I was thinking about this today. Life is meaningless, and that is a relief. What I do right doesn't last, but what I do wrong doesn't last either. I do far more wrong than right, so that is why I'm glad.

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Why don't you aspire to do better just for your own sake and self image?
After all, when you're dead all this ceases to exist as far as you're concerned. However, what remains after you're gone is your legacy. What you've done for the world and people. And what you've done to the world and its people.

No one wants to die and have people say, GOOD! We're read of that dusty azzh...., well, you know.
Rather, they want to be mourned, remembered fondly, shared in memory with friends who knew they enjoyed a good joke. Not be recalled as a joke.
They want to live on in the eyes of their children who have that same color and those gold flecks in the pale shade of blue. In their smile and their laughter that makes more sounds in this life than does their tears.

Sure, when you're dead you're dust in the wind.

What does your life mean now that you're dust in the skin?

juvenissun said:

Because what we know is limited, so you think what can we do is also limited.
Because what we can imagine is limited, so you are more convinced that what we can do is limited.

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I think just the opposite actually. But your statement here brings up another thought...

What would your thoughts on religion be if our technology was one day capable of making an exact duplicate copy of you? And I don't mean a clone.. I mean an exact copy complete with all your memories, scars, blemishes, history, etc etc.. Every atom, every quantum state, copied exactly.
Extend that technology and your exact person can be stored on a hard drive, and reassembled as a perfect copy of the original without degradation.. So your "person" is recorded, and saved when you are 20 years old.. then every year or month after that.. Eventually when you reach old age, or die due to an unfortunate event, we can recall your data and recreate you exactly like you were the last time a recording was made or at any previous saved recording.. You could live forever.

Consider this carefully....
What would your thoughts be for your soul? Thoughts about religion? Would anything change? Or would you just assume there's another exact YOU there and think nothing more of it?

cloudyday2 said:

I was thinking about this today. Life is meaningless, and that is a relief. What I do right doesn't last, but what I do wrong doesn't last either. I do far more wrong than right, so that is why I'm glad.

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That is a nihilistic point of view. What does meaning have to do with life? How do you define meaning? Each word has a meaning, but the meaning of each word is different from another word, otherwise there would be no need for another word. Words have no meaning unless a meaning is given to the word for the purpose of communication, otherwise it is just a sound. So with words, meaning is given to the sound for a purpose.

As an atheist you deny the existence of God. Very well, but let us hypothetically assume the existence of a being who has no beginning nor end. If meaning is given for a purpose such as words, then would this God have meaning if His life was alone? What would be the meaning of His life before He created everything? I suspect his simply being alive is meaning enough.

Isn't that enough for us, too? Many comments refer to legacy after our death, or impact on relationships, or contributions to humanity, and all are very good. But are those things necessary? As a Christian my meaning is that God created me for his purpose in relationship with him. But I see my significance in simply existing. The very fact that I am alive is meaning enough.

But you also bring up the question of morality. You said, "Life is meaningless, and that is a relief. What I do right doesn't last, but what I do wrong doesn't last either. I do far more wrong than right, so that is why I'm glad."

If life is meaningless, so is your statement for you acknowledge right and wrong. If life is meaningless, then there is no right nor wrong. You also assume that you will cease to exist, but many have come back from the dead. I include the biblical accounts, but I am specifically referring to hospital accounts. How can someone cease to be then return to life? If they cease to exist, then they are nothing. Nothing can not come back to life, only a something. Your assumption that life ceases is erroneous.

There is meaning in life, for itself is meaning enough, but the meaning of life goes further because we did not evolve but were created on purpose. If you reject that, then you still have meaning simply you exist. You are not a nothing, you are a something.