Christian wearing niqab & hijab etc

Locutus · Feb 10, 2016

draped clothing and head coverings are common to many cultures and places, for both genders, throughout history. from east asia to Europe, from the north pole to the south. it's just a very practical form of attire. in hot climates it allows airflow and prevents sunstroke, in cold climates it's layered and can be wrapped around the head and body for warmth. heck, even Scott's Antarctic team wrapped their heads like beduin, and they were 20thC English toffs!

Extraneous · Feb 10, 2016

I believe that common, simple clothing, which covers as much of the body as possible, is the best way to dress. After living in america, and seeing all the inappropriate contentography, and shallow Hollywood flesh worship, i feel that more conservative clothing is not only spiritual, but respectful as well. Ultimately outward appearances diminish intellectual and spiritual reality. Our natural eyes delight in carnal beauty which is really an illusion. True beauty is within.

Locutus · Feb 10, 2016

Extraneous said:
I believe that common, simple clothing, which covers as much of the body as possible, is the best way to dress. After living in america, and seeing all the inappropriate contentography, and shallow Hollywood flesh worship, i feel that more conservative clothing is not only spiritual, but respectful as well. Ultimately outward appearances diminish intellectual and spiritual reality. Our natural eyes delight in carnal beauty which is really an illusion. True beauty is within.

I'm in partly agreement with you, but probably not for the same reasons. Firstly, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "common" clothing. Common to what, where and when? Where I live, hipster and hippy type attire is the most common. In our working to middle class 'mid suburban' areas, 1950's style blandness is most common. Also, what do you mean by 'conservative' clothing? To me that means non-sexually obvious, no synthetics, no advertising slogans (t shirts etc), no spangles or glitter, and no heels. To someone else it might mean something entirely different.

Extraneous · Feb 10, 2016

Locutus said:
I'm in partly agreement with you, but probably not for the same reasons. Firstly, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "common" clothing. Common to what, where and when? Where I live, hipster and hippy type attire is the most common. In our working to middle class 'mid suburban' areas, 1950's style blandness is most common. Also, what do you mean by 'conservative' clothing? To me that means non-sexually obvious, no synthetics, no advertising slogans (t shirts etc), no spangles or glitter, and no heels. To someone else it might mean something entirely different.

Im speaking from a anti materialistic viewpoint. I believe that materialism often blinds people and leaves them intellectually and spiritually diminished. Thats all.

Locutus · Feb 10, 2016

Extraneous said:
Im speaking from a anti materialistic viewpoint. I believe that materialism often blinds people and leaves them intellectually and spiritually diminished. Thats all.

well sure, but still uncertain how that relates to dress?

at a guess ... I'm assuming you mean you prefer to see people wear practical and utilitarian clothing when not involved in specific events which demand otherwise. would that be fair?

Extraneous · Feb 10, 2016

Locutus said:
well sure, but still uncertain how that relates to dress?

at a guess ... I'm assuming you mean you prefer to see people wear practical and utilitarian clothing when not involved in specific events which demand otherwise. would that be fair?

Beauty is vain. So is wealth and status. We worship idols of beauty and status. Its basically the worlds form of holiness, which is vanity.

Locutus · Feb 10, 2016

Extraneous said:
Beauty is vain. So is wealth and status. We worship idols of beauty and status. Its basically the worlds form of holiness, which is vanity.

I'd have to disagree there. I think the ability to appreciate and benefit from whatever we perceive to be beautiful is a gift. Whether that's a snow capped mountain, or a beautiful face, it matters that we benefit from it for even just a small moment. The snow capped mountain doesn't strive to be beautiful, and the naturally beautiful face doesn't either. There is no vanity there.

Wealth on its own is neither positive nor negative - it's merely an accumulation. If we strive for it, we strike problems. Status, now there I can agree. It has zero value, serves no purpose, adds nothing to our existence, and is borne of vanity.

Extraneous · Feb 10, 2016

Locutus said:
I'd have to disagree there. I think the ability to appreciate and benefit from whatever we perceive to be beautiful is a gift. Whether that's a snow capped mountain, or a beautiful face, it matters that we benefit from it for even just a small moment. The snow capped mountain doesn't strive to be beautiful, and the naturally beautiful face doesn't either. There is no vanity there.

Wealth on its own is neither positive nor negative - it's merely an accumulation. If we strive for it, we strike problems. Status, now there I can agree. It has zero value, serves no purpose, adds nothing to our existence, and is borne of vanity.

Outward beauty is temporary but inner beauty is eternal. Outward beauty turns to ashes. Where is the beauty in wasting our years chasing vanity? I have found that Solomon was very wise. He saw how futile this world is. The beauty of this world is that of a graveyard. Brokenness, hopelessness, despair....War, injustice, oppression, misfortune...sadness, depression, suicide, and in the end everything which remains begins to fade and wither like grass.

Locutus · Feb 10, 2016

Extraneous said:
Outward beauty is temporary but inner beauty is eternal. Outward beauty turns to ashes. Where is the beauty in wasting our years chasing vanity? I have found that Solomon was very wise. He saw how futile this world is. The beauty of this world is that of a graveyard. Brokenness, hopelessness, despair....War, injustice, oppression, misfortune...sadness, depression, suicide, and in the end everything which remains begins to fade and wither like grass.

this world (the only world we have, currently .... hurry up NASA) is so very beautiful because it's both - beautiful AND ugly. if it was all beauty, we'd be utterly jaded - and beauty would cease to have any meaning. if it were all ugly, we'd give up. and I don't think it's even a 50/50 proposition. most of humanity is able to extract more beauty than ugly, which is why we thrive and improve.

as for personal physical vanity - again it's all very subjective. I'm vain, but my vanity plays out via a firm resistance to last century's objectification of females. I refuse to dye my grey hair, or wear make up, or wear bras, or wear high heels, or wear perfume, or shave my armpits and legs, etc. some would say that's the opposite of vanity, but it really isn't. again, it's subjective.

Rajni · Feb 10, 2016

Extraneous said:

The beauty of this world is that of a graveyard. Brokenness, hopelessness, despair....War, injustice, oppression, misfortune...sadness, depression, suicide, and in the end everything which remains begins to fade and wither like grass.

Click to expand...

My goodness, where have you been focusing?

The only time what you have described seems the most
pronounced in my worldview is when my serotonin levels
are down. Or when I make the mistake of watching or
reading "the news" (big mistake, that one). Negative news
sells, so constant exposure to it tends to give off the
impression that this world is, basically, hopeless.

- -

Locutus · Feb 10, 2016

chaela said:
Or when I make the mistake of watching or
reading "the news" (big mistake, that one). Negative news
sells, so constant exposure to it tends to give off the
impression that this world is, basically, hopeless.

- -

Some good recent studies have shown that habitual news watchers/readers are less happy (that's a no brainer!), but more importantly news broadcasts beyond say 10 or 15 minutes a day are shown to reduce intelligence. Sounds utterly bogus, I know, but when you break down the study you see the mechanism quite clearly. Because newscasts are a series of bites, none long enough to engage at a deeper synaptic level in the way a long narrative does, we grow 'shallow roots'. If our diet consists mainly of bite sized chunks of narrative or information, with little exposure to long narrative, we literally get dumber and dumber.

Rajni · Feb 10, 2016

Locutus said:
Some good recent studies have shown that habitual news watchers/readers are less happy (that's a no brainer!), but more importantly news broadcasts beyond say 10 or 15 minutes a day are shown to reduce intelligence. Sounds utterly bogus, I know, but when you break down the study you see the mechanism quite clearly. Because newscasts are a series of bites, none long enough to engage at a deeper synaptic level in the way a long narrative does, we grow 'shallow roots'. If our diet consists mainly of bite sized chunks of narrative or information, with little exposure to long narrative, we literally get dumber and dumber.

That does makes sense!

-

Extraneous · Feb 10, 2016

Locutus said:
this world (the only world we have, currently .... hurry up NASA) is so very beautiful because it's both - beautiful AND ugly. if it was all beauty, we'd be utterly jaded - and beauty would cease to have any meaning. if it were all ugly, we'd give up. and I don't think it's even a 50/50 proposition. most of humanity is able to extract more beauty than ugly, which is why we thrive and improve.

as for personal physical vanity - again it's all very subjective. I'm vain, but my vanity plays out via a firm resistance to last century's objectification of females. I refuse to dye my grey hair, or wear make up, or wear bras, or wear high heels, or wear perfume, or shave my armpits and legs, etc. some would say that's the opposite of vanity, but it really isn't. again, it's subjective.

When you look at the suffering, you see how vain it is.

Extraneous · Feb 10, 2016

chaela said:
My goodness, where have you been focusing?

- -

In my heart.

football5680 · Feb 11, 2016

It would depend on their reasoning for doing it. If they are doing it as part of their obligation to dress modestly then it is fine. If they were doing it to try and be like Muslims then it would be unacceptable. I think the niqab is a bit excessive but if they are willingly choosing to dress like that then I wouldn't have any objections.

Locutus · Feb 11, 2016

Extraneous said:
When you look at the suffering, you see how vain it is.

If suffering bothers you to the extent it appears to - spend what remains of the only life you're sure of in relieving it. That isn't vanity.

jen76 · Feb 11, 2016

I agree with dzheremi about the submission thing.
Sorry, i sent this message wrong and now can't fix it to quote.

Extraneous · Feb 11, 2016

Locutus said:
If suffering bothers you to the extent it appears to - spend what remains of the only life you're sure of in relieving it. That isn't vanity.

I dont think you grasp the meaning of what i was saying. Thats ok though.

Cearbhall · Feb 11, 2016

PsychoSarah said:
These kinds of coverings originated with similar practices done by Christians. Some very orthodox Christian groups still use clothing similar to hajibs.

So, no issue with wearing these clothes, near as I can tell.

This. It's not like Islam made it up.

Aryeh Jay · Feb 11, 2016

When I was in the Persian Gulf, I wore a Keffiyeh. It really helped keep the sun and sand away. (a Shemagh actually)

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