Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

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katerinah1947

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Hi,

I am not trying to change, rather trying to explain.

I understand your words. I understand your point.


Who is expanding without changing? Expansion amounts to change according to your logic.

No it does not.

It is change according to your logic, that you have been using up to now.

If you see using all of The Bible as change, by virtue of expanding your present definition of God, that is no change for me, as I already do that, as taught.

Bible is not complete when it comes to understanding of infinite God.

Further though, eliminating most of the passages that are there about God, reduces to even more, of what you already do not know about God.

LOVE,
 
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jimmyjimmy

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it takes a very long time to explain something in the bible it is not from god

Your premise is wrong. Just because you can't understand something doesn't necessarily mean it's difficult to understand.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Hi,

That post was not sent to you. It was not.

Do you wish to discuss God with me, objectively or just keep telling me how right you are?

He is the one who is in error, by limiting himself. If you share his view fine.

However, the choice is yours, still.

You can either hold to your views, ignoring all inputs but your own, as you have been doing or not.

You can also keep engaging in accusations or not.

The problem to solve Biblically, is how all those phrases in the Bible match up.

It is not picking and choosing.

Psalms 110:1, from Jesus point of view, told us that The Holy Spirit had David say those words.

The Lord, said to my Lord.

Even there, those words must be included.

Jesus said He is written about in The Book of Moses.

And John said Jesus is God, in John 1:1.

Later in John 6, Jesus talks about His Father.

Somewhere Jesus' Father, speaks to Jesus on earth. Twice.

There is so much there, that if it is all thrown out, then views like God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit, all one person, but God can split parts of Himself off, so that He can be on the earth in Son form, and in heaven always in Father form, plus work in Holy Spirit form, all at the same time.

That as I said, is not my understanding.

LOVE,
Your view of psalms 110:1 is flawed as I twice previously showed you. In neither instance did you respond:
You believe an equal trinity is proved by two Lords being mentioned. Zechariah states:

On that day there will be ONE LORD and his name the only name zech14:9

The above is speaking of a time yet to come. So according to your logic of psalms 110:1 in the light of zech 14:9 you would have to believe Christ will cease to exist when that prophecy is seen to happen.
Your beliefs are seriously flawed

Righttruth is not in error, you are
 
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stuart lawrence

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Hi,

That post was not sent to you. It was not.

Do you wish to discuss God with me, objectively or just keep telling me how right you are?

He is the one who is in error, by limiting himself. If you share his view fine.

However, the choice is yours, still.

You can either hold to your views, ignoring all inputs but your own, as you have been doing or not.

You can also keep engaging in accusations or not.

The problem to solve Biblically, is how all those phrases in the Bible match up.

It is not picking and choosing.

Psalms 110:1, from Jesus point of view, told us that The Holy Spirit had David say those words.

The Lord, said to my Lord.

Even there, those words must be included.

Jesus said He is written about in The Book of Moses.

And John said Jesus is God, in John 1:1.

Later in John 6, Jesus talks about His Father.

Somewhere Jesus' Father, speaks to Jesus on earth. Twice.

There is so much there, that if it is all thrown out, then views like God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit, all one person, but God can split parts of Himself off, so that He can be on the earth in Son form, and in heaven always in Father form, plus work in Holy Spirit form, all at the same time.

That as I said, is not my understanding.

LOVE,
The bible often uses the phrase God the Father, please show me where the phrase God the son is mentioned
Yes, in john 6 Jesus says no one has seen the father except him
 
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Righttruth

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There is so much there, that if it is all thrown out, then views like God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit, all one person, but God can split parts of Himself off, so that He can be on the earth in Son form, and in heaven always in Father form, plus work in Holy Spirit form, all at the same time.

That as I said, is not my understanding.

LOVE,

Bible only informs about God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, not God the Son and God the Holy Spirit! God is not an object to be subjected to splitting! All Three exist, but not as Three Gods that are co-equal!
 
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katerinah1947

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Your view of psalms 110:1 is flawed as I twice previously showed you. In neither instance did you respond:
You believe an equal trinity is proved by two Lords being mentioned. Zechariah states:

On that day there will be ONE LORD and his name the only name zech14:9

The above is speaking of a time yet to come. So according to your logic of psalms 110:1 in the light of zech 14:9 you would have to believe Christ will cease to exist when that prophecy is seen to happen.
Your beliefs are seriously flawed

Righttruth is not in error, you are

Hi,

I fell asleep. It is 9:00 AM Here.

Jesus used Psalms 110:1 in the present tense.

First He used it on the Pharasees who either refused to answer that Jesus is God, or could not answer because they didn't know.

In another Gospel he used it to teach about the Trinitarian nature of God.,

He was directing His work there at the people and not The Scribes and Pharasees.,

All of your words about God, I am having to throw out, and have now. I am sorry.,

The only other time, that I have had these kinds of conversations, they were with members of one of four groups.

And Proverbs wise, my position is uncertain, so I will continue, even though I had to throw all of your information out and start over, as you both say that., Oh you don't say that. Oh but you do believe Jesus., Hmm?

Psalms 2, with The Holy Spirit having David say these words: This day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations as an inheritance, when Jesus accepts His inheritance tacitly there, That Jesus, do you accept Him as your Lord and Savior, who has come down from heaven, from His Father, Do you call that one Jesus or some other version of God's Son, Jesus?


Psalms 2:7-12

7 I will tell of the decree:
The Lord said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

LOVE,
 
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stuart lawrence

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Hi,

I fell asleep. It is 9:00 AM Here.

Jesus used Psalms 110:1 in the present tense.

First He used it on the Pharasees who either refused to answer that Jesus is God, or could not answer because they didn't know.

In another Gospel he used it to teach about the Trinitarian nature of God.,

He was directing His work there at the people and not The Scribes and Pharasees.,

All of your words about God, I am having to throw out, and have now. I am sorry.,

The only other time, that I have had these kinds of conversations, they were with members of one of four groups.

And Proverbs wise, my position is uncertain, so I will continue, even though I had to throw all of your information out and start over, as you both say that., Oh you don't say that. Oh but you do believe Jesus., Hmm?

Psalms 2, with The Holy Spirit having David say these words: This day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations as an inheritance, when Jesus accepts His inheritance tacitly there, That Jesus, do you accept Him as your Lord and Savior, who has come down from heaven, from His Father, Do you call that one Jesus or some other version of God's Son, Jesus?


Psalms 2:7-12

7 I will tell of the decree:
The Lord said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

LOVE,
Then you throw out the words of Jesus, for my words quote what he stated.
The father is the only true God and greater than the son. So clearly Jesus did not teach an equal trinity.
Neither therefore when he quoted psalms110:1 did he teach an equal trinity.
I assume according to zech14:9, and according to your belief of psalms110:1 you believe a time is coming when Jesus ceases to exist.
The lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1cor3:20
 
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Righttruth

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If you see using all of The Bible as change, by virtue of expanding your present definition of God, that is no change for me, as I already do that, as taught.

It appears that you are defining God on your own!

Further though, eliminating most of the passages that are there about God, reduces to even more, of what you already do not know about God.
LOVE,

Presumptions cannot help in knowing God!
 
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Der Alte

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Bible only informs about God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, not God the Son and God the Holy Spirit! God is not an object to be subjected to splitting! All Three exist, but not as Three Gods that are co-equal!

Therein is the error. If one is going to argue about the Trinity one should learn exactly what the Trinity is. This description of the Trinity is totally false. In the Biblical Trinity there is not three gods and nothing is split. There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God.
Thirty six (36) scripture which address or refer to Jesus as God, Matt 1:23, Isa 9:6, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, 3, 4, 10, 14, 18, 10:33, 5:18,8: 58, 12;24, 14:9, 17:5, 10, 20:28, Act 20:28, Rom 9:5, 2 Cor 4:4, Col 1:14-16, 2:9, Eph 3:9, Heb 1:1:2-3, 8-12, 3:3, Phi 2:6, 1 Tim 1:1, 3:16, 6:15, Tit 2;13, 2 Pet 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Rev 17:14, 19;16, 22:12-13


[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[3]Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him[God created the world, Gen 1:1][/color], and the world knew him not.

[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word [acting on Himself] became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, μονογενὴς θεὸς ] which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. [Jewish leaders speaking]

[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.[John speaking]

[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am [ אהיה/ehyeh, I am, Ex 3:14].

[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his [Jesus] glory, and spake of him[ יהוה /YHWH, Isa 6:1ff].

Isa 6:1
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple
[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was [Jesus was aware of His existence before the world was created.].

[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine [Everything that belongs to the Father belongs to Jesus]; and I am glorified in them.

[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, [Jesus] My Lord and my God. [Thomas addressed Jesus as God and Jesus praised him.]

[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever [Jesus called God]. Amen.

[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever[God calls the Son, God]: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being [existing] in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh [Jesus called God], is justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ [Jesus called God], which is our hope;

[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; [The lamb is king of kings, Rev 17:14, Jesus is king of kings, Rev 19:16, God is Lord of Lords Deu 10:17]

[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ [Jesus called God];
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ [Jesus called God]:

[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life [Jesus called God].

[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings [יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17]: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS [יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17].

[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 40:10].

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 44:6]
There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27.

Scripture which identify the Holy Spirit as God

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

This passage, Act 5:3-4, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as God by equating lying to the H.S. with lying to God.

Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This passage Act 28:25-27, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying the H.S. spoke words which were spoken by YHWH, in Isa 6:8-10, below.

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, [יהוה/YHWH] saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. [O.T. see יהוה/YHWH, Jer 31:33-34]

This passage, Heb 10:15-17, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH, in Jer 31:33-34, below, were spoken by the H.S.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, [יהוה/YHWH] I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Ps 95:10]
11[/b] So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Deu 1:34-35]

This passage, Heb 3:7-11, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH in Psa 95:10-11, and Deu 1:34-35, below, were spoken by the Holy Spirit.

Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I b][יהוה/YHWH vs. 6][/b]grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Deu 1:34 And the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,

There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39.
 
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katerinah1947

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Then you throw out the words of Jesus, for my words quote what he stated.
The father is the only true God and greater than the son. So clearly Jesus did not teach an equal trinity.
Neither therefore when he quoted psalms110:1 did he teach an equal trinity.
I assume according to zech14:9, and according to your belief of psalms110:1 you believe a time is coming when Jesus ceases to exist.
The lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1cor3:20

Hi,

Why have you not answered the question put to you about Jesus, in Psalms 2?

Do you accept that Jesus as your Jesus?

Do you even understand that Jesus is talked about in Psalms 2?

LOVE,
 
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katerinah1947

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It appears that you are defining God on your own!



Presumptions cannot help in knowing God!

Hi,

So what about you? Do you accept the Jesus talked about in Psalms 2?

Do you know that Jesus is talked about in Psalms 2?


LOVE,
 
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katerinah1947

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Then you throw out the words of Jesus, for my words quote what he stated.
The father is the only true God and greater than the son. So clearly Jesus did not teach an equal trinity.
Neither therefore when he quoted psalms110:1 did he teach an equal trinity.
I assume according to zech14:9, and according to your belief of psalms110:1 you believe a time is coming when Jesus ceases to exist.
The lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1cor3:20

It appears that you are defining God on your own!



Presumptions cannot help in knowing God!

Hi,

And what say you, of @Der Alter, who has put down for you my point?

All of scripture is to be used to understand God, as well as we can?

Why are you ignoring everything that others understand?

LOVE,
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Your premise is wrong. Just because you can't understand something doesn't necessarily mean it's difficult to understand.

Oh I completely understand the trinity, but my point was the trinity is something man made and too convoluted to be true.
  • God is three persons.
  • Each person is divine.
  • There is only one God.
Seems ridiculous to come to the conclusion there is one God from three persons. You have to make something like this up because it is not true. All the verses used by trinitarians have already been refuted. Three persons but one God makes no sense. God would have had to played a trick on the jews and us if this were true.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Therein is the error. If one is going to argue about the Trinity one should learn exactly what the Trinity is. This description of the Trinity is totally false. In the Biblical Trinity there is not three gods and nothing is split. There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God.
Thirty six (36) scripture which address or refer to Jesus as God, Matt 1:23, Isa 9:6, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, 3, 4, 10, 14, 18, 10:33, 5:18,8: 58, 12;24, 14:9, 17:5, 10, 20:28, Act 20:28, Rom 9:5, 2 Cor 4:4, Col 1:14-16, 2:9, Eph 3:9, Heb 1:1:2-3, 8-12, 3:3, Phi 2:6, 1 Tim 1:1, 3:16, 6:15, Tit 2;13, 2 Pet 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Rev 17:14, 19;16, 22:12-13


[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[3]Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him[God created the world, Gen 1:1][/color], and the world knew him not.

[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word [acting on Himself] became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, μονογενὴς θεὸς ] which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. [Jewish leaders speaking]

[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.[John speaking]

[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am [ אהיה/ehyeh, I am, Ex 3:14].

[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his [Jesus] glory, and spake of him[ יהוה /YHWH, Isa 6:1ff].

Isa 6:1
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple
[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was [Jesus was aware of His existence before the world was created.].

[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine [Everything that belongs to the Father belongs to Jesus]; and I am glorified in them.

[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, [Jesus] My Lord and my God. [Thomas addressed Jesus as God and Jesus praised him.]

[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever [Jesus called God]. Amen.

[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever[God calls the Son, God]: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being [existing] in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh [Jesus called God], is justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ [Jesus called God], which is our hope;

[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; [The lamb is king of kings, Rev 17:14, Jesus is king of kings, Rev 19:16, God is Lord of Lords Deu 10:17]

[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ [Jesus called God];
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ [Jesus called God]:

[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life [Jesus called God].

[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings [יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17]: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS [יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17].

[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 40:10].

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 44:6]
There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27.

Scripture which identify the Holy Spirit as God

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

This passage, Act 5:3-4, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as God by equating lying to the H.S. with lying to God.

Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This passage Act 28:25-27, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying the H.S. spoke words which were spoken by YHWH, in Isa 6:8-10, below.

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, [יהוה/YHWH] saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. [O.T. see יהוה/YHWH, Jer 31:33-34]

This passage, Heb 10:15-17, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH, in Jer 31:33-34, below, were spoken by the H.S.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, [יהוה/YHWH] I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Ps 95:10]
11[/b] So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Deu 1:34-35]

This passage, Heb 3:7-11, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH in Psa 95:10-11, and Deu 1:34-35, below, were spoken by the Holy Spirit.

Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I b][יהוה/YHWH vs. 6][/b]grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Deu 1:34 And the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,

There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39.

None of these prove a trinity. Unless by trinity you mean God sent his son into the world to do his will through the power of the holy spirit. But trinitarians really believe Jesus is yahweh. That he is God the Son. It is absurd and not in the bible anywhere. Not in any of those verses you quoted or anywhere.
 
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Wgw

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None of these prove a trinity.

They do, actually.

Unless by trinity you mean God sent his son into the world to do his will through the power of the holy spirit.

Among other things, we do believe that.
But trinitarians really believe Jesus is yahweh. That he is God the Son. It is absurd and not in the bible anywhere. Not in any of those verses you quoted or anywhere.

It is in the Bible; I am at a loss as to how you are unable to see it. John 1:1-14, Matthew 28:19, the name Emanuel...
 
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katerinah1947

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Oh I completely understand the trinity, but my point was the trinity is something man made and too convoluted to be true.
  • God is three persons.
  • Each person is divine.
  • There is only one God.
Seems ridiculous to come to the conclusion there is one God from three persons. You have to make something like this up because it is not true. All the verses used by trinitarians have already been refuted. Three persons but one God makes no sense. God would have had to played a trick on the jews and us if this were true.

Hi,

No one can say they completely understand the Trinity and also say It is not true.

You have.

LOVE,
 
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stuart lawrence

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Hi,

Why have you not answered the question put to you about Jesus, in Psalms 2?

Do you accept that Jesus as your Jesus?

Do you even understand that Jesus is talked about in Psalms 2?

LOVE,
I have responded to a lot of what you have written but you do NOT respond to what is put before you. Psalms 2 does not speak of an equal trinity, that is ridiculous, there is nothing to respond to. Your explanations of scripture take many liberties
 
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stuart lawrence

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Hi,

And what say you, of @Der Alter, who has put down for you my point?

All of scripture is to be used to understand God, as well as we can?

Why are you ignoring everything that others understand?

LOVE,
D
Hi,

And what say you, of @Der Alter, who has put down for you my point?

All of scripture is to be used to understand God, as well as we can?

Why are you ignoring everything that others understand?

LOVE,
Der altar needs to read psalms 82:6 and 1cor8&5, and tell us how many Gods he believes there actually are

Perhaps you would like to answer the question der altar refused to answer.
Who in your view is THE God of the one true omnipotent God, 1 peter1:3, 2 cor1:3, etc. I know of no such God. Who is he?
 
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Righttruth

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Therein is the error. If one is going to argue about the Trinity one should learn exactly what the Trinity is. This description of the Trinity is totally false. In the Biblical Trinity there is not three gods and nothing is split. There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God.
Thirty six (36) scripture which address or refer to Jesus as God, Matt 1:23, Isa 9:6, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, 3, 4, 10, 14, 18, 10:33, 5:18,8: 58, 12;24, 14:9, 17:5, 10, 20:28, Act 20:28, Rom 9:5, 2 Cor 4:4, Col 1:14-16, 2:9, Eph 3:9, Heb 1:1:2-3, 8-12, 3:3, Phi 2:6, 1 Tim 1:1, 3:16, 6:15, Tit 2;13, 2 Pet 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Rev 17:14, 19;16, 22:12-13


[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[3]Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him[God created the world, Gen 1:1][/color], and the world knew him not.

[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word [acting on Himself] became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, μονογενὴς θεὸς ] which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. [Jewish leaders speaking]

[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.[John speaking]

[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am [ אהיה/ehyeh, I am, Ex 3:14].

[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his [Jesus] glory, and spake of him[ יהוה /YHWH, Isa 6:1ff].

Isa 6:1
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple
[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was [Jesus was aware of His existence before the world was created.].

[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine [Everything that belongs to the Father belongs to Jesus]; and I am glorified in them.

[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, [Jesus] My Lord and my God. [Thomas addressed Jesus as God and Jesus praised him.]

[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever [Jesus called God]. Amen.

[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever[God calls the Son, God]: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being [existing] in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh [Jesus called God], is justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ [Jesus called God], which is our hope;

[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; [The lamb is king of kings, Rev 17:14, Jesus is king of kings, Rev 19:16, God is Lord of Lords Deu 10:17]

[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ [Jesus called God];
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ [Jesus called God]:

[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life [Jesus called God].

[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings [יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17]: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS [יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17].

[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 40:10].

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 44:6]
There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27.

Scripture which identify the Holy Spirit as God

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

This passage, Act 5:3-4, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as God by equating lying to the H.S. with lying to God.

Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This passage Act 28:25-27, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying the H.S. spoke words which were spoken by YHWH, in Isa 6:8-10, below.

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, [יהוה/YHWH] saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. [O.T. see יהוה/YHWH, Jer 31:33-34]

This passage, Heb 10:15-17, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH, in Jer 31:33-34, below, were spoken by the H.S.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, [יהוה/YHWH] I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Ps 95:10]
11[/b] So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Deu 1:34-35]

This passage, Heb 3:7-11, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH in Psa 95:10-11, and Deu 1:34-35, below, were spoken by the Holy Spirit.

Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I b][יהוה/YHWH vs. 6][/b]grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Deu 1:34 And the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,

There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39.

All the above verses can be disputed to indicate the error in the orthodox Trinity concept which was a diversion when monotheism religion of Judaism that led to Christianity got into Paganism. Trinity stands for God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All the Three are personified in the recording of the Bible though the Father and the Holy Spirit are Spirit.
 
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