Reclaim Australia rallies 4th April

hmw said:

People identify to whatever they want. Malcolm Turnbull identifies as a Liberal party politician in spite of the many calls as to what is such a progressive Left leaning politician doing there.

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Uh-huh. So, care to stick to the OP? Maybe answer some, you know, actual questions as asked?

*eyeroll*

hmw said:

Actually I identify as a Christian. But compared to you I'd be centre in politics.

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Well if following Jesus commands to care for the poor and sick makes me a leftie then I guess I ma after all. That of course means Jesus was a leftie and since we are commanded to follow him then I guess you have to be a leftie.

Of course I know that you make all kinds of assumptions and false accusations about my views. Keep telling yourself those lies. I'm sure you will believe it.

hmw said:

Straight on to your trademark diversion tactics again I see.

The issue you avoid is that Australians do not want to be forced to pay a religious tax that funds Islamic agendas. It's that simple Dag. No need for your usual steering off onto another of your side ally diversions.


Again Australians dont want to pay a religious tax that funds a religious agenda, especially one that is a totalitarian fascist ideology. The Kosher tax was not brought to the attention of Australians, hence there was no anti-semetism issue as was suggested as a link to anti-Muslims.

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See you call the question a diversion but once again make a argument that is central to your case that requires the question to be answered. I am not surprised you don't get it.

The kosher certification still exists (only a dishonest person calls it a tax) yet people are only complaining about halal certification. Why is it the christian democrats make no mention of the kosher certification? Shows that since they have become politicians they have sacrificed their integrity.

hmw said:

Lame argument Dag. Halal certification/extortion is funding the Islamic agenda and not the poor.
BTW, we've had this debate before when you were advocating that churches should lose their tax exempt status, to which I replied that your suggestion would be detrimental to the poor as the tax exempt status for churches enabled them to better care for the poor.

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Nope I have not advocated that. I have advocated that those who do not wish to follow the law should not feel entitled to money. Funding always comes with conditions. Funding is different to tax exemption.

Armoured said:

*eyeroll*

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yep nothing changes with hmw

TheDag said:

yep nothing changes with hmw

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So I've noticed. Including the responses, regardless the actual questions.

ken777 said:

It is interesting that in social studies classes teachers can teach students about the religion of countries being studied but they cannot teach the Christian origins of Christmas & Easter.

.

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That may be because Christmas and Easter don't have Christian origins

Locutus said:

That may be because Christmas and Easter don't have Christian origins

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I know what you are saying but they are still the 2 most significant celebrations in the Christian church and should be taught as part of our culture & history.

ken777 said:

I know what you are saying but they are still the 2 most significant celebrations in the Christian church and should be taught as part of our culture & history.

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Oh absolutely. I agree that the Christian heritage of white Australia ought to be taught. Just as other elements of our history and identity are taught, and the same way - as an academic observation of a point or points in time. It most certainly should not be taught as reality, or even given more focus than any other shaping factor in our identity and present culture.

And all kids in 'Christian' nations should be taught the origins of Christmas - especially those of European/British heritage. If they only ever hear the Christian version, they are being wilfully prevented from accessing their own ancestral history.

Locutus said:

Oh absolutely. I agree that the Christian heritage of white Australia ought to be taught. Just as other elements of our history and identity are taught, and the same way - as an academic observation of a point or points in time. It most certainly should not be taught as reality, or even given more focus than any other shaping factor in our identity and present culture.

And all kids in 'Christian' nations should be taught the origins of Christmas - especially those of European/British heritage. If they only ever hear the Christian version, they are being wilfully prevented from accessing their own ancestral history.

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The role of Christianity in shaping our identity & culture is a dominant one and should indeed be given more focus. In a crowded curriculum I do not see a place for teaching pagan traditions.

ken777 said:

The role of Christianity in shaping our identity & culture is a dominant one and should indeed be given more focus. In a crowded curriculum I do not see a place for teaching pagan traditions.

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It may have had longer term influence, but so have many other things. And I do think kids should know the origins of Christmas, because they can make the connection between contemporary rituals (tree, etc) and their dustant pagan ancestors. It's living history - and it's their OWN history. Why deny them?

Locutus said:

It may have had longer term influence, but so have many other things. And I do think kids should know the origins of Christmas, because they can make the connection between contemporary rituals (tree, etc) and their dustant pagan ancestors. It's living history - and it's their OWN history. Why deny them?

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The connection is tenuous at best and disputed by many. Common features do not always mean common origin, as with pyramids. The tree is a symbol in ancient Judaism.
Older children can research these matters as part of their school work but I am talking about a general knowledge of the Christian meaning of these events because Christianity is still the only significant religion in most Western countries.

ken777 said:

The connection is tenuous at best and disputed by many. Common features do not always mean common origin, as with pyramids. The tree is a symbol in ancient Judaism.
Older children can research these matters as part of their school work but I am talking about a general knowledge of the Christian meaning of these events because Christianity is still the only significant religion in most Western countries.

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I think both should be taught, at least in regards to Christmas. I can't agree that Christianity needs especial focus though - there is a risk, when it comes to kids - that any focus might suggest it's reality. I'm sure you'll agree that kids ought not be influenced by weight of information to take someone else's superstitions seriously.

ken777 said:

It is interesting that in social studies classes teachers can teach students about the religion of countries being studied but they cannot teach the Christian origins of Christmas & Easter.

.

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Possibly because they don't have Christian origins?

SteveB28 said:

Possibly because they don't have Christian origins?

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Christmas & Easter as we understand them have Christian origins. You are probably referring to the idea that the dates are believed to be associated with ancient pagan festivals.

Locutus said:

I think both should be taught, at least in regards to Christmas. I can't agree that Christianity needs especial focus though - there is a risk, when it comes to kids - that any focus might suggest it's reality. I'm sure you'll agree that kids ought not be influenced by weight of information to take someone else's superstitions seriously.

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It is factual that the dominant religion of our society has a Christian understanding of Christmas & Easter. Teaching all students an understanding of ancient pagan myths is a waste of time in a crowded curriculum because they have no current relevance.

ken777 said:

It is factual that the dominant religion of our society has a Christian understanding of Christmas & Easter. Teaching all students an understanding of ancient pagan myths is a waste of time in a crowded curriculum because they have no current relevance.

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Perhaps not indepth studies of paganism, but kids should be taught the likely origins of Christmas and Easter. A flat earth no longer has relevance, but we still learn it was once a thing. That's what history is. Things of the past.

May I ask why you have a problem with the basics of it (paganism in Christmas traditions) being taught?

Locutus said:

Perhaps not indepth studies of paganism, but kids should be taught the likely origins of Christmas and Easter. A flat earth no longer has relevance, but we still learn it was once a thing. That's what history is. Things of the past.

May I ask why you have a problem with the basics of it (paganism in Christmas traditions) being taught?

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The main problem is time. As a retired school teacher I know that is a precious thing in a busy day. But besides that, any pagan links to Christmas & Easter are tenuous and lack consensus.