Linguistic

Hoshiyya · Feb 8, 2016

I noticed that in English, the J in Hallelujah is pronounced as a Y.
I cannot think of another English word where J is pronounced as Y.
Just thought it was interesting (from a linguistic perspective).

Look Up · Feb 8, 2016

The English word "Hallelujah" is a loan word AND a transliteration, meaning (1) borrowed from another language and (2) roughly approximated in English letters, in this case of course derived first from Hebrew. But English is such a polyglot--of Celtic, Latin and French, Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, Greek, stuff borrowed from British colonial languages like Hindi. The word "hallelujah" may be a loan word from Hebrew via some sort of Germanic tongue (such as Yiddish) in which language(s) a "J" is pronounced like our "y." Think of the Germanic-derived Tetragrammaton representation "Jehovah" (where in German the "J" is pronounced as we would pronounce our "y").

Hoshiyya · Feb 9, 2016

Look Up said:
The word "hallelujah" may be a loan word from Hebrew via some sort of Germanic tongue (such as Yiddish) in which language(s) a "J" is pronounced like our "y." Think of the Germanic-derived Tetragrammaton representation "Jehovah" (where in German the "J" is pronounced as we would pronounce our "y").

I think that's the consensus on its origin, and I agree. However as you noted, English-speakers will pronounce the J in Jehovah as a normal Jay, not as a Y.

Aryeh Jay · Feb 9, 2016

Hoshiyya · Feb 9, 2016

Aryeh Jay said:
הַלְלוּיָה

looks like "halleluyah" to me.

In Hebrew, yes. Nobody is disputing that. I just noted the non-normative pronounciation of the English J in the English adoption of this word.

Aryeh Jay · Feb 9, 2016

Hoshiyya · Feb 9, 2016

Aryeh Jay said:
Could be an old carry over from the Germanic roots.

As noted above I think so too, but we also note that other such words, like Jacob, are pronounced in English with a normal J sound. No agenda, just mentioning a linguistic curiosity.

Aryeh Jay · Feb 9, 2016

Taom Ben Robert · Feb 9, 2016

Hoshiyya said:
As noted above I think so too, but we also note that other such words, like Jacob, are pronounced in English with a normal J sound. No agenda, just mentioning a linguistic curiosity.

It's because J at the beginning in Germanic Languages are pronunced Jay , even with loan words , i.e. We took foreign words and applied Germanic grammar to them

Hoshiyya · Feb 10, 2016

Taom Ben Robert said:
It's because J at the beginning in Germanic Languages are pronunced Jay

This is really only the case in English, not in Germanic languages as a whole. I'm not sure if the Jay sound exists in the other languages in that language family.

I think a German person would pronounce J as a Jay only if it was an English word, eg. a name like "Jennifer", or say an Arabic word, etc.

yonah_mishael · Feb 10, 2016

Hoshiyya said:
This is really only the case in English, not in Germanic languages as a whole. I'm not sure if the Jay sound exists in the other languages in that language family.

I think a German person would pronounce J as a Jay only if it was an English word, eg. a name like "Jennifer", or say an Arabic word, etc.

Yeah, the letter j at the beginning of a German word is still pronounced like the English y. You're right about that.

We actually have a lot of oddities in English. Like garage and massage, in which the g in -age is pronounced like the French j. This isn't normal for English.

By the way, I think the English form of hallelujah and hosanna came from Latin.
Hebrew > Greek > Latin > English

See the attached files - screenshots from Google.

Hoshiyya · Feb 10, 2016

yonah_mishael said:
Yeah, the letter j at the beginning of a German word is still pronounced like the English y. You're right about that.

We actually have a lot of oddities in English. Like garage and massage, in which the g in -age is pronounced like the French j. This isn't normal for English.

By the way, I think the English form of hallelujah and hosanna came from Latin.
Hebrew > Greek > Latin > English

See the attached files - screenshots from Google.

Hoshi'ah is used in Ps. 118:25, but it seems Hosanna might be derived from an Aramaic form of the word, Hoshiyya'na, used by the 1st century crowds welcoming Yeshua into Jerusalem. I guess it depends on if one prefers to read it as "save, now" or "save us".

yonah_mishael · Feb 10, 2016

Hoshiyya said:
Hoshi'ah is used in Ps. 118:25, but it seems Hosanna might be derived from an Aramaic form of the word, Hoshiyya'na, used by the 1st century crowds welcoming Yeshua into Jerusalem. I guess it depends on if one prefers to read it as "save, now" or "save us".

The image that I attached suggests that a rabbinic form of הושיע is הושע (hosha) and the -na portion is נא (not "now" but "pray" or "please").

Hoshiyya · Feb 10, 2016

yonah_mishael said:
The image that I attached suggests that a rabbinic form of הושיע is הושע (hosha) and the -na portion is נא (not "now" but "pray" or "please").

My understanding is that in Aramaic -na would indicate the third person plural, "save us", which to me makes more sense relative to its meaning, but the suggestion you reference is also viable.

To that point: from the gospel point of view, the crowds could be asking Yeshua to save them "please", which probably should be understood imperatively, with the implication that Yeshua might answer "no, I won't rule as a political king in this incarnation/coming, but in my second coming I will." So it would relate to the "deferred hope".

However as a general exclamation, "save us" makes more sense to me.

pinacled · Feb 10, 2016

Something I found rather peculiar. The letter is the 7th consonant and 10th letter.

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