mmksparbud says:
You guys quote a biblical verse that says that the angels sang for joy---but you go on to say that those angels are preexisting men! That is not in the bible, anywhere!!
The scripture you are referring to is Job 38:7 (and the word "angel" is not anywhere to be found)
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
I am saying that "the morning stars and "sons of God" must be different than "the angels of God".
I have my interpretation as to who these entities are.
All you have is your interpretation too.
So I can use the bible to support my position of pre-earth spirits from the bible as well as you can use your interpretation to deny that doctrine. The bible supports both our views. You want the bible to only support your interpretation, it doesn't work that way.
Bottom line, you must have an interpretation to answer the question: who are the "stars of heaven" and who are the "sons of God"? Who do you think they are?
You quote a verse that Jesus was created, then go on from there without taking it into context that He was created as a human in Mary's womb, but as the ONLY Begotten son of God, was not created.
Begotten, does not equal "not created". In fact it is exactly the opposite of "uncreated".
Begotten does equal "to be created".
You say Jesus is the Son of God, but then go on to say God and a heavenly goddess formed Him.
My only referrence to a heavenly goddes( and I did not use that verbiage) was to say that in order for Jesus to be begotten before God and Mary begat Jesus in the flesh, it would take 2 heanvenly persons to perform that act. Otherwise you have some kind of wierd emanation (which means to flow out, or to issue forth. This is not begotten, it takes 2!!
Quoting a bible verse and then making up stuff as to what it means that is not in the bible does not make your theology biblical!!!
You interpret the bible, so do I. Is it ok for you to interpret, but not me? That's what your saying. It doesn't work that way.
The bible clearly states that Jesus created everything, everything visible and invisible, in the world and out of it, but you deny that and insist that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers when Jesus created Lucifer!!
All I have ever said, was God the Father was a creator too. The bible clearly states that Jesus is the "firstborn", I asked who caused his birth? The bible clearly says, Jesus is the beginning of the creations of Who? He is the beginning of the creations of God, meaning Jesus's God, God the Father. God the Father created him. Who followed Jesus, also created by Jesus's God? His spirit "fellows". You have not answered these questions.
Then by the power and authority of God the Father, Jesus created all the known material universe. Visible and invisible, etc, etc, etc.
This is a position very well supported by the Bible. Not the BOM, but the Bible.
You don't believe in our interpretation, so you counter that by saying, our interpretation is rediculous and stupid and that none of that is biblical. So again, tell me who the "stars of heaven" are? Who are the "sons of God"? What are they shouting about before the earth was created?
Good hunting?
Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they
were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen_6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare
children to them, the same
became mighty men which
were of old, men of renown.
Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Php_2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Morning star is mention only here--either plural or singular:
Rev_2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Rev_22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David,
and the bright and morning star.
Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Those are the verses dealing the sons of God and morning stars. From just reading these I get nothing that states the sons of God are preexisting humans. I do see where it says they are sons of God who are led by the Spirit of God. By any means you wish to use, those who are led by the spirit of God would seem to mean anyone who follows God---be they human or not.
Are we God's only creation? Well, obviously, angels are mentioned all over the bible. Are we the only other creatures and worlds He created? Except for the "sons of God"---nothing else is mentioned. He creates, I doubt humans and angels are His only creations, but the bible does appear to indicate we are the only ones that were created in His image. But whatever He has created, if they follow Him, they are His sons. I see nothing that states anything ever existed before He created them.
If you want to imagine something, it should be within what the bible has said--all of it. If you have 2 different possible interpretations of a verse, what are the guidelines for that interpretation? Just whatever sounds good to you, or do you take everything that the bible says about a subject and bring it all together, and bring in the very character of God itself to see what would follow with it all?? I choose the latter, you can do whatever you wish.
All the bible says is that Jesus is the ONLY begotten son of God. How that was accomplished, it does not go into detail about. Nor does it go into how many it took to accomplish this . These are beings above and beyond anything we know, or can comprehend and insisting something was done in a manner not specified goes beyond the knowledge that was given. He spoke a world into existence--what else is the Power of His voice able to do I can't even imagine and certainly will not be calling any method He chooses to create as weird. "Only" means just that, one and only, unique, not repeated. Whatever you want to make of the word begotten still means there is ONLY ONE of HIM--there will be no more.
YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN REPEATEDLY ASKED NOT TO SAY WE SAID SUCH AND SUCH WITHOUT QUOTING THE ACTUAL WORDS STATED!!!
You don't believe in our interpretation, so you counter that by saying, our interpretation is rediculous and stupid and that none of that is biblical.
I went back several pages and can not find where I said that--somewhere along all this I may have used the word ridiculous, (I'm sorry, hard not to use that word in relation to a seer stone in a hat!!)but I know I never said stupid---I have said nit biblical many timed and make no apologies for that, it isn't!! How many times do you have to be told to not do this??!!
