Jesus - was he a Jew?

ewq1938

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Acts 21:17-26 Paul took a Nazarite vow.

He was forced to by a mob and luckily he was able to leave before it was completed.


Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

The leaders of this multitude of people tell Paul what they want him to do...and if you want to live, you do what a multitude of people tell you to do...this is a mob.

The Nazarite vow was not completed because Paul definitely didn't sacrifice any animals:

Num 6:9 And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.
Num 6:10 And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:11 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day.
Num 6:12 And he shall consecrate unto the LORD the days of his separation, and shall bring a lamb of the first year for a trespass offering: but the days that were before shall be lost, because his separation was defiled.
Num 6:13 And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:14 And he shall offer his offering unto the LORD, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings,
Num 6:15 And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings.
Num 6:16 And the priest shall bring them before the LORD, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering:
Num 6:17 And he shall offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering.
Num 6:18 And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings.

As you can see, animals have no part of this until the 8th day.



Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
Act 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Act 21:29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
Act 21:30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.

Yet still during the 7th day Paul was taken out of the Temple and did not return. Is the timing of this co-incidence? hmmmm....also note this mob of people are now violent to Paul proving they were to be feared all along!



Paul followed Torah, and was not against The Commandments.

Let's listen to Paul:

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13

the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56

the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15

we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6

we are not under the law- Romans 6:15

we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6


Jesus midrashed in the Temple as a child.

Irrelevant. He lived under the old covenant. After the cross, the old covenant was no longer in effect, replaced by a new covenant built upon better promises. Paul lived under this new covenant which is why he taught against following the old covenant which is why the Jews hated him so much.
 
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The Lone Ranger

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He was forced to by a mob and luckily he was able to leave before it was completed.


Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

The leaders of this multitude of people tell Paul what they want him to do...and if you want to live, you do what a multitude of people tell you to do...this is a mob.

The Nazarite vow was not completed because Paul definitely didn't sacrifice any animals:

Num 6:9 And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.
Num 6:10 And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:11 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day.
Num 6:12 And he shall consecrate unto the LORD the days of his separation, and shall bring a lamb of the first year for a trespass offering: but the days that were before shall be lost, because his separation was defiled.
Num 6:13 And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:14 And he shall offer his offering unto the LORD, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings,
Num 6:15 And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings.
Num 6:16 And the priest shall bring them before the LORD, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering:
Num 6:17 And he shall offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering.
Num 6:18 And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings.

As you can see, animals have no part of this until the 8th day.



Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
Act 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Act 21:29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
Act 21:30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.

Yet still during the 7th day Paul was taken out of the Temple and did not return. Is the timing of this co-incidence? hmmmm....also note this mob of people are now violent to Paul proving they were to be feared all along!





Let's listen to Paul:

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13

the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56

the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15

we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6

we are not under the law- Romans 6:15

we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6




Irrelevant. He lived under the old covenant. After the cross, the old covenant was no longer in effect, replaced by a new covenant built upon better promises. Paul lived under this new covenant which is why he taught against following the old covenant which is why the Jews hated him so much.

Under that ideaology Yeshua was forced by a mob to preach, and hang on a cross, eventhough HE willingly went with the soldiers Judas brought to HIM, and it was written by the prophets ONE would come.
 
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ewq1938

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Dave-W

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"Doesn't Jesus say that "since you are lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth"?"
Yes. Lukewarm regarding Christianity, not Judaism.
Did He recognize a difference? the split was not to come for another 100 years.
 
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Dave-W

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Do you think there is a difference between Paul and Christ?
Indeed there is. But it is one of focus. Our Lord was sent "Only to the lost sheep of Israel." Paul was sent to the gentiles.
 
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ewq1938

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Indeed there is. But it is one of focus. Our Lord was sent "Only to the lost sheep of Israel."

But there is more to that:

Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Clearly Christ would attend to a gentile that had faith.

So, there actually isn't any real difference between Paul and Christ in regard to whom they would help.
 
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Dave-W

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Clearly Christ would attend to a gentile that had faith.
But ONLY if pressed (which happened on occasion). HIS primary focus was the Jews, and Paul's primary focus was pagan gentiles.
 
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There was a split from day 1.
Not so. All thru Acts "christianity" was considered just another sect of Pharisaic Judaism. "The Sect of the Nazorean," or, "The Way."

I do not believe the split was EVER from God.
 
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ewq1938

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Not so. All thru Acts "christianity" was considered just another sect of Pharisaic Judaism. "The Sect of the Nazorean," or, "The Way."

The Jews didn't see it that way.
 
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Not so. All thru Acts "christianity" was considered just another sect of Pharisaic Judaism. "The Sect of the Nazorean," or, "The Way."

I do not believe the split was EVER from God.

The Romans considered it Judaism , the believers considered it something new , while keeping their Jewish and Gentile ethnicities i.e. Christianity was Christianity from the start , thus founded by Jesus , thus the split was sanctioned by God
 
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Luke17:37

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Mary's genealogy is in Luke 3 and Joseph's (Jesus's adoptive father) is in Matthew 1.

He couldn't be Messiah if He wasn't descended from Abraham, Judah, and David... which He is.

A side note--the genealogical records were destroyed with the temple in AD 70, so no one else can legitimately claim to be Messiah.

I highly recommend this article:

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v05-n06/genealogy
 
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Luke17:37

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Luke17:37

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Dave-W

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The Jews didn't see it that way.
Sure they did. If they did not see it that way, why did they let "Christians" fight along side them during the sieges of Jerusalem, both in 70 ad, and 135 ad?
 
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Dave-W

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The Romans considered it Judaism , the believers considered it something new , while keeping their Jewish and Gentile ethnicities i.e. Christianity was Christianity from the start , thus founded by Jesus , thus the split was sanctioned by God
You will have a hard time proving that. Mainly because before 135 ad (Bar Kochba revolt) neither side saw Christianity as a separate religion.

I submit the split was NEVER sanctioned by God. Who was the New Covenant promised to? (see Jeremiah 31) Why was Jesus ONLY sent to Israel? (and NOT the gentiles)
 
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John Courson via radio last week said Mary came from the descendant of David, through a son called Nathan.
I believe Courson was wrong. Mary was a "close relative" of Elizabeth, who was described as a "daughter of Aaron" (Luke 1.5) - thus making her from Levi. If Mary was a close relation - she would also have to be a daughter of Aaron - from Levi - as well.
 
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