Coverup of Vaccine-Autism Link: Top Doctor

LoAmmi

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Figure out what the triggers are and test for them. See if there is a family history. Be more cautious in administering vaccines (smaller doses spread out, for example). Only mandate for the most serious diseases, not every disease for which there is a vaccine (the rest being optional or dependant on the situation). Delay some vaccinations until the immune system is stronger.

There's plenty that can be done, and may actually be done as far as I know. But this 'everyone should be vaccinated for everything and you're evil for questioning it at all' mentality needs to stop.
Doctors do look at those things. I mean, seriously, do people who oppose vaccines think that their doctor just doesn't give a rat's behind about them?

It's a known fact that vaccines kill people. Not many people, and it's a smaller proportion than would die without vaccines. But they will die. It's entirely reasonable for parents to be precautious and insist that everything is done as safely and that their children are going to be okay with receiving the vaccines.

What we don't need is hysterical reactions like saying parents should have their children taken from them because they don't get them vaccinated. Ultimately, they are trying to protect their children. While they may be misguided in what they believe, the intent is still good. Education is the key to fight anti-vaxers, nor threats. And more research into decreasing the odds of negative reactions to vaccines to easy the worries of those with legitimate concerns.

Fine, how about this? Charge them with a crime if their child spreads an illness to another child who was unable to be vaccinated? If it can be proven, they get to pay a fine/sit in jail and think about their amazingly stupid decision.
As I said though, if I were dictator. I really don't care what their reasoning would be at that point.
 
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Tallguy88

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I am not normally all that big on the idea of shaming ppl but you know I think you're right that sometimes it's what's deserved. Cause the consequences can be huge. Like Ella on here has had problems her whole entire life cause of super bad complications from chickenpox when she was a baby & couldn't be vaccinated yet cause she was too young. She almost died. She's 17 & still dealing with the health problems caused by that. The kid who gave it to her wasn't vaccinated on purpose. I don't understand why ppl even have kids if they're not going to take care of them. It makes me sad & kinda mad too tbh.
Those numbers don't add up. Ella got chickenpox from an unvaccinsted child roughly 17 years ago? My doctor friend said the chickenpox vaccine has only been around (or widely available and advocated) for approximately a decade. I know there was no chickenpox vaccine when I got chickenpox around age seven, which would have been only a few years before your friend was born, based on the age given.

If the vaccine had been discovered by then, it may not have been in widespread use.
 
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LoAmmi

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Here's one thing that is undeniable. Diseases that were virtually eradicated in the West have come to be around again due to anti-vaxers. That alone should be enough to say that their decision is dangerous, ignorant, and stupid.
 
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Tallguy88

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Not at all.
Your doctor friend said what she said because it's the position of the AMA and all concerned. If she wants to keep her license she complies with policy.
Why would she lie to me? It's not like I'm her patient or going to turn her in or anything. I trust her near decade of education and years of practical experience in practicing real medicine on real people. She's not a pediatrician though, but of course she has done pediatrics as part of her internship and residency.
 
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Rick Otto

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Why would she lie to me? It's not like I'm her patient or going to turn her in or anything. I trust her near decade of education and years of practical experience in practicing real medicine on real people. She's not a pediatrician though, but of course she has done pediatrics as part of her internship and residency.
She doesn't have to lie, just not voice doubt. It isn't about her lying to you, it's about her protecting her job.
 
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Tallguy88

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Doctors do look at those things.

Good. I'm sure more can be done with improved research and screening, however.

I mean, seriously, do people who oppose vaccines think that their doctor just doesn't give a rat's behind about them?



Fine, how about this? Charge them with a crime if their child spreads an illness to another child who was unable to be vaccinated? If it can be proven, they get to pay a fine/sit in jail and think about their amazingly stupid decision.
As I said though, if I were dictator. I really don't care what their reasoning would be at that point.
If the doctors said things like your second paragraph, then I don't see how they could come to any other conclusion.
 
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Tallguy88

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She doesn't have to lie, just not voice doubt. It isn't about her lying to you, it's about her protecting her job.
She has no doubt that vaccines don't cause autism. There's real side effects of vaccines, but autism isn't one of them.
 
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Rhamiel

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She has no doubt that vaccines don't cause autism. There's real side effects of vaccines, but autism isn't one of them.

I agree

and like you said
the cure for this is more education
not threats to have their children taken away or forced out of a community

our society is loosing its mind :(
we are no longer able to talk about people who we disagree with and say they are good people too
look at how polarized every political issue is :(
 
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Chris B

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there is a risk in taking vaccines, some people die, some people have severe reactions that change their lives
this is not some crack-pot theory, this is accepted medical fact
there is a percentage of children who die from vaccines
there are also people who never have vaccines and who do not catch a serious illness

it is about weighing risks

But in this situation, as in some others, but not all, that weighing is something communal since the assessment of risk by one affects the actual risk to others.
In a society that does weigh into the individual's right to decide purely on the individual's basis.
To what extent, now that's for debate and negotiation, depending on the issue and the effect of an individual's choice on others.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Those numbers don't add up. Ella got chickenpox from an unvaccinsted child roughly 17 years ago? My doctor friend said the chickenpox vaccine has only been around (or widely available and advocated) for approximately a decade. I know there was no chickenpox vaccine when I got chickenpox around age seven, which would have been only a few years before your friend was born, based on the age given.

If the vaccine had been discovered by then, it may not have been in widespread use.

(Preface for anyone reading this who might not already know: I'm Ella. :))

Is your physician friend a pediatrician in the United States? If so then perhaps the conversation between the two of you was a bit like a game of telephone where some of the information being passed along got miscommunicated. It is correct that the two-dose varicella (chickenpox) vaccination program commenced in 2006 to provide additional protection, but the vaccine actually first became commercially available in 1984. I believe it was developed in the 1970s, but am not certain. The varicella vaccine was added to the national childhood immunization program in the U.S. in 1995 in a routine 1-dose schedule. This vaccine was not kept hidden under a bushel; it was widely available and advocated from the time of its FDA approval that year. There were around 4 million cases of the chickenpox in the U.S. annually prior to the vaccine, and in the early 1990s there'd been several outbreaks, with the preschool and elementary age groups being the most prevalently afflicted. 10,000 previously healthy children were hospitalized yearly in the U.S. before the vaccine was introduced, due to virulent skin infections resistant to antibiotics, infection with strep and Group A strep (also known as "flesh eating" bacteria), and other serious complications such as pneumonia; around 70 died yearly. This is why the news of availability of the vaccine in 1995 was clearly and loudly announced and caused rejoicing among pediatricians. The steady uptake of the vaccine between 1995 and 1998 resulted in a significant decline in chickenpox incidence and in related hospitalizations and deaths. To my knowledge only one vaccine-related death was reported, in an English child with preexistent leukemia. (Editing to add - I wrote the post while half asleep and was a bit sloppy here. To clarify, the one death was reported between the 1990s and 2013. I almost positive no deaths have been reported since that data, either.)

My older brother's preschool already required proof of the vaccine for enrollment in 1998. That's the year when his chickenpox-infected new friend from next door popped in and passed it along to me when I was only a baby too young to receive the vaccine yet myself. I had been born at just 30 weeks and had a very fragile immune system incapable of fighting off the virus; it ravaged me and I ended up in the PICU. We were staying at our grandparents' house, and there was widespread public knowledge in their city about the critical importance of vaccination at that time. The previous summer there'd been a chickenpox outbreak at a summer camp in the area for children with HIV, causing distress and hospitalizations. It had been all over the local news. There was vocal advocacy about the vaccine. I thought the boy's parents might have been anti-vaxxers, but my nana informed me that was not the case. His mother had told her that her eldest son cried so much when he received his vaccines it upset her, and so she didn't have her second son vaccinated. They wanted to avoid a few seconds of tears and pain.

Aren't you from Arkansas? The varicella vaccination requirement was introduced for kindergarten entry there in 2000. It was well after your time starting school but before the age your friends would have kids themselves, so it's to be expected that you wouldn't have been aware of that fact. If your friend is not a pediatrician, then it's more plausible that she (or he) simply wasn't aware of when the single-dose vaccination program began because it doesn't have as much relevance to her speciality.

I found this archived article from the CDC dated June 1996 for you to pass along to your friend: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00039897.htm
 
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Blondepudding

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Why would she lie to me? It's not like I'm her patient or going to turn her in or anything. I trust her near decade of education and years of practical experience in practicing real medicine on real people. She's not a pediatrician though, but of course she has done pediatrics as part of her internship and residency.
I didn't say she lied to you. I said she told you what she is required to say due to the constraints set upon her and all medical doctors by the AMA.

Years ago there was a dentist that made the news because he bucked the ADA guidelines concerning silver amalgam fillings , which contain silver, tin, copper, and mercury. Because the mercury is what binds the other metals properties together so as to be installed in a cavity, being safe for dental procedures.

This dentist had known a young female patient since she was a child. At this point if I remember right she was nineteen years old and suffering with MS. The disease progressed until she found herself in a wheelchair.

On a visit to her doctor who'd seen her go from being a healthy vibrant little girl to this sad woman in a wheelchair due to her MS, the doctor told her that he wanted to try something to see if he could help. He needed her consent of course. His proposal was to remove all of the silver amalgam fillings he'd put in her teeth and replace them with porcelain.
He told her he thought the silver may be having an adverse affect on her health.

She agreed to the switch. In a matter of weeks she was out of the chair using a cane for support. In a matter of months she was free of any supports and her symptoms of MS had largely disappeared.

The ADA got wind of this. Rather than being supportive of a dentist that helped a young woman extricate herself from a wheelchair and regain her state of health, they yanked his license. Because he'd made an unapproved claim about silver fillings and that potential liability, which the AMA did not approve as to his remarks concerning the health risks of silver fillings, was against their rules of practice.

Having nothing to lose this dentist went on the media circuit to inform people what had happened and so they could decide for themselves as to the safety of silver fillings.
This was something the ADA should have known. When they stripped a doctor so that he had nothing to lose anymore as regarded his profession, he had everything to gain by warning people about silver fillings. And being that the ADA reacted so strongly against what he said rather than what he did to help a young woman regain her health, he had a very good case for being right. Contrary to what the ADA approved for him to say about that in the beginning.

So no, I'm not saying your friend lied to you. I'm saying she consigned herself to the parameters the AMA set for her to say as to the safety of vaccines.


 
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Ada Lovelace

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I think a big plus would be that old wisdom many peoples mothers drilled into them as children growing up; if you can't say something positive don't say anything at all. Snarks in threads for snarks sake isn't what makes an article look bad....

I remember to this day when I was very young on a vaccine visit to the pediatrician. I'm sitting on the exam table waiting for the shot. I hate needles. The nurse brings the vial over to the doctor and I can see there's still quite a bit left in the bottle. The doctor hands the vial back to the nurse and says, no, I want a new vial for this child.

I thought that was the oddest thing but I still recall that.

I think of the impact that would occur if everyone concerned in this issue, from the pharmaceutical companies on down, admitted to a link between autism and vaccinations.

There's no evidence!
Well no kidding. Not when the evidence sought is tantamount to the police policing themselves. The investigators investigating themselves.

All anyone has to do is watch TV for a day and note all the attorney firm commercials asking viewers if they ever took this or that drug that viewers saw advertised years or even months before.
Those attorney firms are asking those who suffered side effects to call because they could be entitled to a substantial award.

Then, wait for it and you'll see a pharmaceutical advertised. Likely the people touting the drug are actor portrayals. But after they advertise all the so called benefits of that new drug they run down the short and dirty list of potential side effects.
I watched one such commercial. One of the side effects was bleeding in the brain.
Another drug's potential side effects is lymphoma. (Lymphatic cancer)

Impossible for vaccinations to cause autism? When attorney firms can make millions for clients suffering pharmaceutical side effects? Imagine the liability for the thousands that suffer autism.

And what are the numbers of those who are anti-vaccine having autism diagnosis compared to those that were vaccinated and diagnosed as such?

What's the upscale of autism diagnosis over the last say 50 years?
So called, "Big Pharma" , is one of the largest lobbies in politics.
No evidence? What are autism suffers if not evidence of something?

In addition to the plethora of expansive studies around the world throughout the past fifteen years or thereabouts that were not funded in any way by "Big Pharma", anti-vaccination organizations have actually funded research that proved exactly what the other studies did - there is no link between autism and vaccines. Correlation doesn't equate to causation.
http://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaxxer...wing-theres-no-link-between-autism-and-379245

50 years ago fewer doctors diagnosed children with autism in substantial part because fewer doctors had extensive knowledge about the diagnostic criteria for autism. It's like how 200 years ago there were still many people who had cancer, but not nearly as many doctors who could properly diagnose it.
 
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Butterfly99

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Those numbers don't add up. Ella got chickenpox from an unvaccinsted child roughly 17 years ago? My doctor friend said the chickenpox vaccine has only been around (or widely available and advocated) for approximately a decade. I know there was no chickenpox vaccine when I got chickenpox around age seven, which would have been only a few years before your friend was born, based on the age given.

If the vaccine had been discovered by then, it may not have been in widespread use.

The numbers do add up. See Ella's post. I've known 1 kid in my entire life to get chickenpox & that's cause all of us got the vaccine when we were little. I was born in 99 & got it like in 2000 I guess. I don't remember getting it but I know for fact I got it. So yeah no the vaccine has been commonly used for way longer than a decade.
 
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Here's the thing I don't get.

These diseases are horrible. Most are unreal contagious, all are deadly. And anti-vaxxers are like, "Oh, the human immune system can handle this and measles is no worse than a bad cold".

Guys, I had measles (the vax came out a couple of years too late for me). There have been two times in my life I honestly thought I was going to die. When I was 19 and a car feel off it's jackstands while I was under it and when I was 8 and had the measles. I spiked so a fever so high for so long it permanently changed my normal body temperature. It took me 2 weeks AFTER I got better just to get to recuperate to the point where I could go back to school.

Where I learned about half to class was either out with or recovering from the measles and all of them were so sick that the teacher was afraid some weren't going to make it back to school.

....and this is what anti-vaxxer are toying with like it doesn't matter.
 
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Blondepudding

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I think people who are concerned about the rise of autism are concerned that vaccines could be the contributing cause. And I think what bothers such people are those who are pro-vaccine at any cost and who act as if autism is no big deal. Quite possibly because they don't have a child diagnosed with autism.
 
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