Lord, Lord, Didn't We. . .

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

Steeno7 said:
I know all about Christ working in and through me. But, that ain't at all what you're sellin'. No matter how you try to spin it.

Christ cannot agree with abiding within the Eternal Security Proponent who thinks they can sin and still be saved because that would mean He would have to condone their sin (And that is not possible).

....

Steeno7 · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
Christ cannot agree with abiding within the Eternal Security Proponent who thinks they can sin and still be saved because that would mean He would have to condone their sin (And that is not possible).

And yet you think you can sin and still be saved. Are you now an "eternal security proponent"?

jimmyjimmy · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
You didn't do nothing in order to accept the gospel? Is not repenting of your sins and accepting Christ an action or work on your part?

...

I responded to what God had already done, certainly. God acts, and we respond. He initiates and we follow. . .

Nothing I did was work. I was dead; He made me alive; I thanked Him, and began to follow Him. I think that pattern is clear in the NT, so I'm not alone.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

Steeno7 said:
And yet you think you can sin and still be saved. Are you now an "eternal security proponent"?

That is utter ridicoulsouness. I am the farthest thing from an Eternal Security Proponent because I do not believe I sin at every second of every day. Nor do I believe I sin every day, either. I believe I will overcome sin with Christ's help (Which I have the hope that could be even now).

Again, there is a huge difference between:

(a) The alcoholic who stumbles on their road to recovery in being sober (versus):
(b) The alcoholic who enters a program to be sober and yet has no real desire to give up their drink.

....

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

thatbrian said:
I responded to what God had already done, certainly. God acts, and we respond. He initiates and we follow. . .

Nothing I did was work. I was dead; He made me alive; I thanked Him, and began to follow Him. I think that pattern is clear in the NT, so I'm not alone.

But in this view of faith, one cannot really follow the Lord if they also believe they can serve sin, too.
That is not following God but one's own sin along with trying to follow the Lord.
But Jesus said we cannot serve two masters, for we will hate the one and love the other.
For you do not believe you can oversome sin in this life.
But this is just an excuse to continue to do evil while one thinks they are saved.
It is a doctrine of immorality that God cannot agree with.

This is evident by Matthew 7 in several ways because Jesus told the false believers to depart from him because:

(a) He never knew them (Matthew 7:23, cf. Ezekiel 18:24 cf. 1 John 2:3, Proverbs 15:9).
(b) They worked iniquity (sin) (Matthew 7:23).
(c) They do not follow the words of Jesus (Matthew 7:26-27).

Nowhere does Jesus tell these false believers righteousness or wonderful works were wrong. Jesus merely said they had sin and they are not doing all the words of Jesus.

In other words, they were doing good, but they were also doing evil, too. This is why Jesus rejected them. Here is a passage for you to consider,

34 "...When thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness. "
(Luke 11:34-35).

...

Steeno7 · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
That is utter ridicoulsouness. I am the farthest thing from an Eternal Security Proponent because I do not believe I sin at every second of every day. Nor do I believe I sin every day, either. I believe I will overcome sin with Christ's help (Which I have the hope that could be even now).

Well, when you get there, then you can come back and talk to us about our sins. Until then you are a just noisy gong and a clanging bell.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

Steeno7 said:
Well, when you get there, then you can come back and talk to us about our sins. Until then you are a just noisy gong and a clanging bell.

I am not sure it will matter to you or that you willl even believe me in that day.
Besides, my life is not the standard of living.
God's Word is the standard of how we are to live.
God's Word says, "Be ye holy; for I am holy."
Jesus says be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.
Jesus says to two people to, "sin no more."
That does not sound like a sin and still be saved doctrine to me.

In Matthew 7 we are told to enter into the narrow gate or the narrow way.
This is then followed by Jesus saying that there are false prophets (false believers) who appear to us in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves. This is speaking of their behavior. They appear to be like good sheep (righteous people) but inwardly we discover they are actually acting like wolves (i.e. sinners) (Matthew 7:15). For Jesus said, we will know these false prophets by their fruit (Matthew 7:20). Fruits are deeds (cf. Matthew 3:8 with Acts 26:20).

...

Steeno7 · Feb 10, 2016

Jason0047 said:
I am not sure it will matter to you or that you willl even believe me in that day.

Like I said, WHEN you get to the state of sinless perfection you claim you can reach, THEN you can come here and point your finger at others and their sins. So, you be sure to let us know WHEN you have reached it, okay?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 10, 2016

Steeno7 said:
Like I said, WHEN you get to the state of sinless perfection you claim you can reach, THEN you can come here and point your finger at others and their sins. So, you be sure to let us know WHEN you have reached it, okay?

No. I can preach the truth of God's Word. My life does not change what is in the Word of God. Also, many believers go thru the Sanctification process so as to overcome sin, too.

Let me give you a real world example again to illustrate.

The True Believer is like the alcoholic who stumbles on his road to recovery in being sober.

The Eternal Security Proponent is like an alcoholic who enters a drug program to be sober but they have no intention of giving up their drink.

Okay. So are you saying that the alcoholic who overcame his sin of alcohol addiction and who stumbled on occasion could not have warned others to be sober while he was on his road to recovery? What if he saved a life in the process by doing so?

...

-57 · Feb 11, 2016

Jason0047 said:
The Eternal Security Proponent is like an alcoholic who enters a drug program to be sober but they have no intention of giving up their drink.

...

I am truly appalled by that remark. That is the furthest thing from the truth.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

I do expect you to correct your post or apologize for the shameful accusation.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 11, 2016

-57 said:
I am truly appalled by that remark. That is the furthest thing from the truth.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

I do expect you to correct your post or apologize for the shameful accusation.

First, there are varying degrees or levels of Eternal Security, or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved).
So not all OSAS is the same.

Second, Eternal Security has led people into a life style of sin. It is not a matter of debate, but it is a fact. I have provided testimonies to show that very fact. So it does not matter if people who believe in OSAS here are living in a lifestyle of sin or not. The fact of the matter we know that the general message of OSAS in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not being set free from it. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.

Ex OSAS Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers

Suicide & OSAS:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.

A Pastor's Testimony on OSAS:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.

Hooked on Sin & OSAS:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony

Third, (just so that you know): I believe in the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation" that teaches that a true believer who is saved will naturally bring forth a life full of holiness and fruitful works. Now, do not misunderstand me, works are not done to be saved, but they are merely the evidence that you have been saved when one repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. Meaning, works are the proof the Lord lives within you. Anyways, if a believer sins, they need to immediately confess that sin and forsake it and continue to walk uprightly with their Lord. If a believer continues to abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death (lying cheating murder etc.) then they are not saved.

So seeing I hold to the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation", I am naturally against all forms of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved).

OSAS Type #1:
Classic OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) which says you can practice unrepentant sin that leads unto death (Such as lying, murder, hate, fornication, etc.) and yet you can somehow still be saved.

OSAS Type #2:
Mid Range OSAS says that you cannot practice sin otherwise you do not know God. However, abiding in an occasional or small unrepentant sin and then dying in that sin will not necessarily send you to Hell.

OSAS Type #3:
OSAS Rising teaches that a believer will not live in habitual sin and they will only sin on occasion (with them confessing their sin). However, they do not believe they were ever stop sinning in this life time, though (Even though there are many verses that clearly tell them that they can overcome sin if they partake of the Sanctification process with God). This belief allows for a little sin and they will fight strongly against the idea that they will ever be able to stop sinning (even if such sin is done on occasion).

OSAS Type #4:
OSAS Lite teaches that you if you practice or continually abide in unrepentant sin then you were never saved to begin with. Meaning that a true believer is characterized by them living righteously. So falling away from the faith would be impossible (Despite the many verses that talk about such a thing).

Does your view of Eternal Security or OSAS match up with any of the ones above?
Or is your view of Eternal Security different?
If so, please explain.
But please know that if the Bible tells you that you can stop sinning (And it does) and you reject that idea, then sinning on some level is going to be a part of your life on some level (Which is making an excuse to sin - when the Bible says you can stop sinning).
Also, when you tell people that they are saved by what Jesus did and it is in nothing that they do (and you stop there in your message), then they are going to think they have a license to sin.

Anyways, thank you for reading.
And may God's love shine upon you.

...

jimmyjimmy · Feb 11, 2016

Jason0047 said:
The Eternal Security Proponent is like an alcoholic who enters a drug program to be sober but they have no intention of giving up their drink.

There is no truth in this statement. If you don't understand our side, you can't argue well. Your words will simply be dismissed, so if you are convinced that you are correct, understand our views before you make any more foolish comments.

jimmyjimmy · Feb 11, 2016

Jason0047 said:
Antinomianism (OSAS)

Here is another perfect example. You don't know what you are talking about. Antinomianism is not the same thing as OSAS. Wise up before you are simply ignored by (more) folks here.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 11, 2016

thatbrian said:
There is no truth in this statement. If you don't understand our side, you can't argue well. Your words will simply be dismissed, so if you are convinced that you are correct, understand our views before you make any more foolish comments.

Also, the analogy of the two alcoholics still holds true.
If you believe that you cannot stop sinning in this life (As per some false interpretation on 1 John 1:8) and the Bible tells you that you can stop sinning (When you have no intention to stop - on whatever level), then you are like the alcoholic who enters a drug program to be sober with the intention of never giving up your drink (sin). Again, why? Because you still believe you will always sin in this life (When the Bible says you can stop sinning).

...

-57 · Feb 11, 2016

Jason0047 said:
First, there are varying degrees or levels of Eternal Security, or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved).
So not all OSAS is the same.

Second, Eternal Security has led people into a life style of sin. It is not a matter of debate, but it is a fact. I have provided testimonies to show that very fact. So it does not matter if people who believe in OSAS here are living in a lifestyle of sin or not. The fact of the matter we know that the general message of OSAS in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not being set free from it. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.

Ex OSAS Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers

Suicide & OSAS:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.

A Pastor's Testimony on OSAS:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.

Hooked on Sin & OSAS:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony

Third, (just so that you know): I believe in the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation" that teaches that a true believer who is saved will naturally bring forth a life full of holiness and fruitful works. Now, do not misunderstand me, works are not done to be saved, but they are merely the evidence that you have been saved when one repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. Meaning, works are the proof the Lord lives within you. Anyways, if a believer sins, they need to immediately confess that sin and forsake it and continue to walk uprightly with their Lord. If a believer continues to abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death (lying cheating murder etc.) then they are not saved.

So seeing I hold to the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation", I am naturally against all forms of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved).

OSAS Type #1:
Classic OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) which says you can practice unrepentant sin that leads unto death (Such as lying, murder, hate, fornication, etc.) and yet you can somehow still be saved.

OSAS Type #2:
Mid Range OSAS says that you cannot practice sin otherwise you do not know God. However, abiding in an occasional or small unrepentant sin and then dying in that sin will not necessarily send you to Hell.

OSAS Type #3:
OSAS Rising teaches that a believer will not live in habitual sin and they will only sin on occasion (with them confessing their sin). However, they do not believe they were ever stop sinning in this life time, though (Even though there are many verses that clearly tell them that they can overcome sin if they partake of the Sanctification process with God). This belief allows for a little sin and they will fight strongly against the idea that they will ever be able to stop sinning (even if such sin is done on occasion).

OSAS Type #4:
OSAS Lite teaches that you if you practice or continually abide in unrepentant sin then you were never saved to begin with. Meaning that a true believer is characterized by them living righteously. So falling away from the faith would be impossible (Despite the many verses that talk about such a thing).

Does your view of Eternal Security or OSAS match up with any of the ones above?
Or is your view of Eternal Security different?
If so, please explain.
But please know that if the Bible tells you that you can stop sinning (And it does) and you reject that idea, then sinning on some level is going to be a part of your life on some level (Which is making an excuse to sin - when the Bible says you can stop sinning).
Also, when you tell people that they are saved by what Jesus did and it is in nothing that they do (and you stop there in your message), then they are going to think they have a license to sin.

Anyways, thank you for reading.
And may God's love shine upon you.

...

Your original post presented OSAS in a light that it is not. HOW DARE YOU? It was a deliberate attempt to discredit the theology in a false means.

Once again you continue with your false accusations.

Also, when you tell people that they are saved by what Jesus did and it is in nothing that they do (and you stop there in your message), then they are going to think they have a license to sin.

Dude, you better stop presenting lies. How can you even think of saying that in a response to my post 110 where I posted this verse:
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Drop your license to sin kick.

-57 · Feb 11, 2016

Jason0047 said:
Also, the analogy of the two alcoholics still holds true.
If you believe that you cannot stop sinning in this life (As per some false interpretation on 1 John 1:8) and the Bible tells you that you can stop sinning (When you have no intention to stop - on whatever level), then you are like the alcoholic who enters a drug program to be sober with the intention of never giving up your drink (sin). Again, why? Because you still believe you will always sin in this life (When the Bible says you can stop sinning).

...

Jason0047...HAVE YOU STOPPED SINNING?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 11, 2016

thatbrian said:
Here is another perfect example. You don't know what you are talking about. Antinomianism is not the same thing as OSAS. Wise up before you are simply ignored by (more) folks here.

Well, you quoted my post before I made the final edit correction when I was proof reading it.

Antinomianism is Classic OSAS (on my List).

It is defined in a Dictionary as:

Definition of antinomian. 1 : one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation. 2 : one who rejects a socially established morality.

This is what all versions of OSAS do on some level. One has to reject morality on some level in order to believe in OSAS. But yes, primarily OSAS Classic is Antinomianism. Although, I would venture to say it may be Mid Range OSAS, too (For they allow an individual to die in unrepentant sin and still be saved).

...

-57 · Feb 11, 2016

Jason0047 said:
Well, you quoted my post before I made the final edit correction when I was proof reading it.

Antinomianism is Classic OSAS (on my List).

It is defined in a Dictionary as:

Definition of antinomian. 1 : one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation. 2 : one who rejects a socially established morality.

This is what all versions of OSAS do on some level. One has to reject morality on some level in order to believe in OSAS. But yes, primarily OSAS Classic is Antinomianism. Although, I would venture to say it may be Mid Range OSAS, too (For they allow individual to die in unrepentant sin and still be saved).

...

Jason, do you still have unrepentant sin? What if you died 30 seconds from now...would you be saved?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 11, 2016

-57 said:
Jason0047...HAVE YOU STOPPED SINNING?

You mean, am I sinning now? No. Have I went without sinning for days? Yes. Do I plan on sinning again? No. I believe God will helps me to resist sin and He provides a way of escape for me if I am tempted. Don't you believe that? For 1 Corinthians 10:13 says,

"There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it."
(1 Corinthians 10:13).

....

-57 · Feb 11, 2016

Jason0047 said:
You mean, am I sinning now? No. Have I went without sinning for days? Yes. Do I plan on sinning again? No. I believe God will helps me to resist sin and He provides a way of escape for me if I am tempted. Don't you believe that? For 1 Corinthians 10:13 says,

"There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it."
(1 Corinthians 10:13).

....

Dude, you just sinned moments ago when you lied about the position of OSAS.

Lord, Lord, Didn't We. . .

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