How close to the 'end' of this earth as we know it?

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

parousia70 said:
So we "dream" between the time we die and the resurrection?

Obviously not. Sleep has a spiritual significance, not a literal one where exactly everything that happens in sleep happens in death. When you are dead, it is black as if you did not exist, till you are raised up.

parousia70 · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
Because obviously the signs of the proximity of his coming will be evident to those who are living, meanwhile those who are dead wont perceive the passing of time to that day.

And the apostles were somehow ignorant of this fact?

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

parousia70 said:
And the apostles were somehow ignorant of this fact?

Obviously not since they always taught that the coming was near, even knowing that there were things that had to happen first before he comes, such as the "falling away", and then the Revelation of John also demonstrating many more things to happen before his coming.

parousia70 · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
Obviously not. Sleep has a spiritual significance, not a literal one where exactly everything that happens in sleep happens in death. When you are dead, it is black as if you did not exist, till you are raised up.

Where does the Bible teach you which aspects of sleep foreshadow death and which do not?

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

parousia70 said:
Where does the Bible teach you which aspects of sleep foreshadow death and which do not?

Ecclesiastes.

parousia70 · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
Obviously not since they always taught that the coming was near, even knowing that there were things that had to happen first before he comes, such as the "falling away", and then the Revelation of John also demonstrating many more things to happen before his coming.

The Book of Jude documents the "falling away" as a then present event, and Paul tells the Thessalonians that the Man of Sin was alive and being restrained fro his takeover of the temple in their day...

John likewise claims the Day of the Lord, and the Tribulation were already underway at the time of His writing of the Revelation.

It was near to them because they saw the signs Jesus told them to look for.

Jesus said that ONLY when certain signs were seen could thy know it was NEAR and at the Doors, not before.

Your "its always been near" get around simply is unnecessary if the text is read at face value.
Your pre determined paradigm is what forces you to fabricate the "its always been near" linguistic gymnastics.

parousia70 · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
Ecclesiastes.

Chapter and Verse?

Dave Watchman · Feb 8, 2016

parousia70 said:
So did the Apostles misread the times they were in when the proclaimed 1900+ years ago that it was then "near, at hand about to take place and must shortly come to pass"?

Maybe. Or else maybe the Lord knew that it would have broken their hearts to have known the second coming of Jesus would be 1900+ years away.

parousia70 said:
IF Christ gave them signs specifically to know when it was near, why did they then proclaim it was near if they didn't see the signs?

They had a big job to do. They had to help God write a book with information that would not be understood until the final generation.

parousia70 said:
If the Inspired Apostles got it so wrong and were so far off in their assessment of their times, even while writing under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit, how can anyone today claim with any certainty the relative nearness?

“Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

That's the last question they asked Jesus before He ascended. Did it sound like they knew what was going on right at that time? That kingdom of old Israel was being taken from them and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

So it was not for them to know. But they continue to be witnesses for those who's time it is to know even to the end of the earth. Right now in 2016 a little kid in Sri Lanka can open the NT and read Paul tell them not to get married and when the message is meant for them, I'm sure they'll know when the right time comes.

"What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

Dave Watchman · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
Because the coming of Jesus Christ is always near to everyone that has existed since then, because when you die, you are quickly taken to the day of the resurrection because death is as sleep, from the moment of death to the moment of resurrection it feels nearly instant, just as when you fall asleep till you wake up. So the coming of the Lord is always near to everyone, whether you are actually alive to see it happen, or whether you are resurrected at his coming, it is always near to everyone.

I agree with this too, we're only a heartbeat away from the last day when we all meet together in the air. It doesn't matter if you got your head chopped off 2000 years ago or die in an old age home tomorrow, we're all resurrected in that same twinkling of an eye. And I bet when it happens we're gonna say: wow that was fast, we're here already.

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

Dave Watchman said:
I agree with this too, we're only a heartbeat away from the last day when we all meet together in the air. It doesn't matter if you got your head chopped off 2000 years ago or die in an old age home tomorrow, we're all resurrected in that same twinkling of an eye. And I bet when it happens we're gonna say: wow that was fast, we're here already.

Exactly. Finally someone that has understanding! :amen:

Imagican · Feb 9, 2016

parousia70 said:
Nope.

Acts 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

To 'appoint a day' is to do nothing but signify that 'there will be a day'. It does not of a necessity mean that a 'specific time' has been chosen.

As in what is quoted above. It could very well mean that God has determined that there will come 'a day' without designating the exact date.

Like saying, 'one of these days...............'. That is to 'appoint 'a' day'. But it is not stating that 'on July 4th 2022...............'. But that there is going to 'be a day'.............

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican · Feb 9, 2016

parousia70 said:
So did the Apostles misread the times they were in when the proclaimed 1900+ years ago that it was then "near, at hand about to take place and must shortly come to pass"?

IF Christ gave them signs specifically to know when it was near, why did they then proclaim it was near if they didn't see the signs?

If the Inspired Apostles got it so wrong and were so far off in their assessment of their times, even while writing under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit, how can anyone today claim with any certainty the relative nearness?

That there have been those of the past that believed we were near 'before' the 'signs' were complete does not indicate that 'we' are incapable of recognizing the signs or how near we are to their completion.

And I don't know that the apostles 'missed it'. To say that the Kingdom of God is 'near' has nothing to do with the time of Christ's return.

And since we all only live for a short period of time and then 'sleep', it is near in time to us all. For if we 'die', then sleep and are awoken upon judgement, wouldn't it 'seem' to us to be 'the next day' after our death, (sleep). And in this context, aren't we 'all' near the 'time' of Christ's return? All near since the 'time of Christ'?

In other words, if we are 'unaware' of the 'time' that passes from our death to judgement, wouldn't it 'seem' like we simply 'wake up' the day 'after' we die, (go to sleep)?

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican · Feb 9, 2016

parousia70 said:
The sleep analogy doesn't work, for just last night I had a series of dreams I thought would never end... felt like an eternity between the time I fell asleep and the time I woke up, and it was only 6.5 hours.

And maybe we 'do dream' when we die, (sleep). And for some, their dreams are of 'good things', (works remembered), and for others their dreams are of 'bad things', (works). And this is a 'part' of our rewards or punishment.

So for those whose 'works' were righteous, the time passes very quickly. And for those whose 'works' were unrighteous, it seems as if their 'nightmares will never end'.

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican · Feb 9, 2016

parousia70 said:
So we "dream" between the time we die and the resurrection?

Quite possible. We dream when we sleep now. Isn't it possible that when this vessel, (our bodies), die, our soul or spirit continues to 'dream'? Not really that much of a stretch in understanding. And it would only make sense. It would give us time to reflect upon our lives which could possibly affirm our own judgement when we awake.

In other words, if we spent the time from our deaths, (sleep), to the time of being awoken, dreaming of our lives and our actions throughout our lives, perhaps when we are judged, it won't be a 'surprise' but something that we are 'all too aware of' so far as 'righteousness'. That having 'dreamed' of ourselves for whatever time we sleep, we will 'know' what our judgement will be and it's fairness when it is performed. When we 'wake up', we will already 'know' what our judgement will be.

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican · Feb 9, 2016

Something a lot of people fail to contemplate. When we 'dream', we are 'outside' of time. Much like God is not confined to 'time'. We too are 'outside' of time when we sleep.

As pointed out already, sometimes dreams seem like they will 'never end' while we remain 'asleep'. But when we 'wake up' we realize that they only lasted for 'seconds' or 'minutes' instead of 'eternity'.

Blessings,

MEC

Neostarwcc · Feb 9, 2016

I believe that cgaviria is correct on his theory of death. There have been people in comas for 20...30...40... even 60 years. When they wake up they claim "It just felt like I was sleeping and that I fell alseep yesterday." This is a passage of up to 60 years of time. So, why isn't death different? It's true, sometimes we perceive sleep as long but, a majority of the time it is very short.

If we truly sleep when we die, and if this world as we know is only to last a few thousand years more. I don't see why it would not just feel like no time passed at all. Otherwise, we'd have a long time to wait until Judgement day. I believe the rapture to be near, but I do not believe it to be in my lifetime. I think at LEAST a few more generations will pass before Jesus's return. Who knows though? We know not the exact day nor the exact hour. It could be today for all we know. I do not think it will be billions of years like was claimed in here. This earth may be capable of lasting that long or longer, but Jesus said it was the end of the world as we know it. Not that It's the death of the earth and not that humans will discontinue to exist. It's just going to be the end of Satan's reign on earth.

justcoolforyou · Feb 9, 2016

cgaviria said:
This heaven and earth will last 7,000 years, which is the wisdom of why God created the heavens and earth in 7 days, to foreshadow this truth. The last 1,000 years correspond to the millennial kingdom, which is also the sabbath rest of the entire earth. Don't listen to anyone else that tells you that this heaven and earth will last billions of years, or that it has existed for millions of years, this is complete and utter nonsense. Even according to the Jewish calendar, we are in the year 5776, so however accurate this calendar is from the exact year of creation, we are certainly close to that commencement of the thousand year sabbath.

The wisdom of the 7 days is to reveal jesus as the new adam. In the gospel of john the wedding at cana takes place in the 7th day listed once u count the days given in the gospel ; where you find the two made of the same flesh (jesus and mary)...

The time for the end is known to The Father ...

cgaviria · Feb 9, 2016

justcoolforyou said:
The wisdom of the 7 days is to reveal jesus as the new adam. In the gospel of john the wedding at cana takes place in the 7th day listed once u count the days given in the gospel ; where you find the two made of the same flesh (jesus and mary)...

The time for the end is known to The Father ...

No.

justcoolforyou · Feb 9, 2016

cgaviria said:
No.

Jesus said only the father knows the time

cgaviria · Feb 9, 2016

justcoolforyou said:
Jesus said only the father knows the time

Correct, but that doesn't mean that we can't know the signs of the proximity of the coming of the Lord, he even said,

Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. (Matthew 24:33 [NIV])

So although we do not know the exact date nor hour, we can know it is close. Plus we have various other prophecies that demonstrate what things must come first before the coming of the Lord. We are very close.

How close to the 'end' of this earth as we know it?

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